wat

As the state of war continues between the Arab states and Israel, it is undefined and impossible to say. At the moment, Israel controls land up to the Jordan, minus areas in which the Palestinian Arabs govern themselves.

The final answer is subject to when the Arabs end their state of war, and whatever comes out of the negotiations between Israel and the rest of the belligerent parties.

Personally, it will be way easier to figure something out with the Palestinians when the rest if the Arab world gives up the dream.

I'll wager a lot that chabibi's answer is meant to be ironic. Arab media loves to rile up the masses by saying that the Jews want to take over all of the land from the Nile to the Euphrates, and, as they do,
Israel-haters everywhere repeat the myth.

Israel want piece, all right. Biggest ****ing piece of Palestine they can get.

the bolded is actually a really honest answer. what do u mean by the Arab countries being in a state of war against Israel? up until 2 years ago Isreal had good relations with 2/4 of its Arab neighbors (i dont really know how the relationship with Egypt has changed post-revolution)? for me a "state of war" exists in Syria. how do you mean Isreal is "at war" right now with Arab nations?

i suspect Gamlor wont find the humor in this, but having never heard it before that's pretty funny.

In Israel's immediate vicinity includes:
Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi, Iran, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Libya, Turkey.

Israel has official relations with Jordan, Egypt and Turkey. The rest are in a permanent official state of war. So what does that mean?

It doesn't necessarily mean a continuous shooting war. Despite several actual wars (in between various armistice agreements) against various combinations of the above countries (some barely if at all, some very active) - the Arab states seem to have mostly given up on trying to destroy Israel in a conventional war.

So here we are, trying to end a state that we can't simply beat up. What to do?

It's obvious: foster a policy of hate and intransigence and refuse to do any business with it. Jew-hatred (not limited to Zionist-hatred) is a staple of Arab media and television. Provide moral support for the unofficial war on Israel - the guerilla terrorism war that's been ongoing since long before any 1967 "occupation". Remember that when someone says that the Palestinian Arabs just are fighting "occupation" and peace will ensue if Israel just pulls out of Yehuda/Shomron aka the "Palestinian territories".

So, even with states that have official peace with Israel, it is barely worth the piece of paper its written on, and any peace with the Palestinian Arabs at this point would be worth about the same.

He got it wrong. Israel doesn't want a piece of Palestine - it wants Palestinian Arab terrorists in pieces.

And, of course, silence from the usual suspects itt about the Iranian ship. They must be busy digging up random reports that blame it on Israel. I'm sure their cognitive dissonance will rationalize this all somehow, but in the meantime, the same old same old from NGOs:

A Fresh Solution to Gaza's Water Crisis:
This is exactly what one would hope international aid organisations would do - improve the lives of people in need and bringing effective solutions to pressing humanitarian problems.

Of course, when it comes to Palestinian issues, the Israel-haters put the Palestinian political agenda ahead of actually helping people.

EWASH is a coalition of almost 30 organisations working on water issues in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt). Their response to this plan?
That's right, the top two reasons EWASH offers for opposing desalination is that the "occupation" would provide an actual benefit to Palestinian Arabs by making Gaza self-sufficient!

Of course, they go on to recommend that for the time being, Israel should sell Gaza unlimited water at subsidised rates (which somehow - please explain if you get how it makes Gaza less vulnerable, per point #3 on that list).

Hmmm. It continues to amaze me that people who style themselves as "pro-Palestinian" are so extremist in their views that Arabs should suffer in the name of the "Palestinian cause" of a zero-sum war against Israel. Where have I heard this before?

And Israel still is trying to help Gazans despite...

Gaza rockets have been fired continuously, unprovoked, at Israel for a couple days now. Several Israeli newspapers have covered this news. On the left and the right. Everywhere.

The PMs office tweeted this::

Israel's legal system combines three legal traditions: English common law, civil law, and Jewish law

Marriage and divorce are under the jurisdiction of the religious courts: Jewish, Muslim, Druze, and Christian. A committee of Knesset members, Supreme Court justices, and Israeli Bar members carries out the election of judges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#Legal_system


Gamblor, can you confirm that in Israel, Israel's legal system combines three legal traditions: English common law, civil law, and Jewish law? and that Marriage and divorce are under the jurisdiction of the religious courts: Jewish, Muslim, Druze, and Christian.?

Not to ignore your recent points but the above is part of the reason why I compare Israel to countries like the UAE or Lebanon.

stop comparing Israel to tiny Arab countries. it makes no sense.

Isreal was founded after the Holocaust when the idea to establish a Jewish state because Jews were not safe in other countries seemed like a pretty convincing idea, and they have had democratic rule for they're whole history.

these Arab countries were drawn on a map in the early 1900s, created out of thin air by colonialists, and the most powerful clans became the ruling family of their own personal kingdom.

there are more similarities between an apple and a Ford Taurus than Israel and the UAE.

i don't really know how to put this, but....do you know anything about these countries, or like, want to know?

Lebanon has pretty much never been a country in any meaningful sense of the word. you cant find 2000 year old books that talk about "the nation of Lebanon".

Lebanon was France's reward after the allies won WWI. an English diplomat and a French diplomat sat down with a map of what had been the Ottoman Empire between them and drew new countries on the map so they could divide the land they had won between the 2 countries.

how many countries were founded on an agreement the President always has to be from one sect, the Prime Minister from a different sect, and the Speaker of the legislature a member of a third sect?

the most powerful government in Lebanon in the past 30 years has been the Syrian government lol.

the GDP of Myanmar and the Dominican Republic are almost identical. same goes for Luxembourg and the Sudan. can say these countries are similar? no, that's not how it works.

Compare != similar drawnone. wow. just wow.

Next time try concentrating on making a adult like post? w/o the ad homs or slighted attacks. I'm going to reply in a more dignified fashion, dont get me wrong I have not been the best poster in the past when it comes to how I treat others, but I've been trying to get better.

IRT Israel/UAE... I wasn't necessary talking about the history of the countries, rather present day activities. Although come to think of it, Modern day Saudi Arabia(est 1932), Modern day UAE(est 1971 ), Modern day Israel(est 1949) are fairly new countries.

I can easily compare Israel to other Middle east countries. A recent heritage study claims Israel, the UAE and Bahrain to be on a similar playing field when it comes to economic freedom(not the countries total GDP), I'm talking about the ability to start a business, a school, a shop, etc.

Of course DrawNone, Israel has its advantages over the UAE and the UAE has its advantages over Israel. But the facts are one can spot nightclubs in both the UAE/Israel, one can spot great food, good activities in Israel/The UAE.


Both the UAE and Israel want to be a example of a great country, Dont get me wrong, controversy plays a role in Israel just as it does in the UAE, wrt Israel we have a situation with the Palestinians which will of course call into question Israels treatment of human rights. As for the UAE, one can note issues with foreign workers, which will of course, call into question the UAE's treatment of human rights. Now, neither Israel nor the UAE come close to the disgrace of a nation that is known as North Korea.

i know you mean long-term, but what makes you think this Gamblor? the most generous deal Israel would offer right now is completely unacceptable to any Palestinian, so do you think a Palestinian state will eventually be founded because Israel will offer more or because Palestinians will accept less?

a skim of Wikipedia is not understanding. think about the difference between a country that was named after a Bedouin warloard 80 years ago because before that it had never been a country (Saudi Arabia) and a country that has 5000 years of history (Isreal).

i know you can, but it really does no good, and in fact does harm because it confuses. the differences between Israel and the UAE are so great and profound, and that fact is not changed by the Heritage Foundation finding both countries have similar processes by which a McDonalds is opened.

Jews had ruled Canaan( modern day Israel) for thousands of years. Of course Muslims previously ruled Palestine(modern day Israel for at least 1000 years, Christians had previously been in control of The Kingdom Of Jerusalem(modern day Israel) for a period of time as well.

In any event, the only thing that matters is who has the military strength to take and hold Canaan/Israel/Palestine/Kingdom of Jerusalem. Throughout history the area known as Canaan/Israel/Palestine/Kingdom of Jerusalem has been controlled by Muslims, Jews, and Christians, the point is who knows what the future of modern day Israel will be. Historically the place(in terms of territorial change) has changed numerous times(as recent as 1948, 1967 as well). The modern state of Israel may change in a peaceful way, or non peaceful in the years to come. In my view, I would simply like to see both sides get along.

I was comparing human rights in Israel/UAE. In a sense(even if its small) I can draw similarities between the unfortunate negative circumstances that some Palestinians face because of Israel policy, and the unfortunate negative circumstances that some foreign workers in the UAE face due to UAE policy.



Of course there are some major differences between Israel and it neighbors. But, the facts are that these folks do have some key things in common, after all they used to "live like brothers", that is according to a Muslim man from North Africa who really has no reason to lie. (In reference to an event from WW2, in other words the majority of Muslims in North Africa protected/worked with Jews in WW2.)

Saying Israel has 5000 years of history as a country while Saudi Arabia was founded only 80 years ago is an amazingly disingenuous post and that's really saying something in this thread.

Yeah, someone doesn't know the difference between nations and states itt

Kid, we have been over this. Economic freedom, especially as defined by the Fraser institute is a very narrow scope on true freedom and liberty. Would you rather live in a country where gays are subject to execution for being gay, women are so subservient to men that husbands can beat them at their whims and guest workers can have passports confiscated and forced into defacto slavery with no recourse so long as foreign capital flows freely and no business licenses are neccessarry? Or would you rather be in a place that respects fundamental human rights but the economy is Somewhat jammed up by red tape like union pressure and strong retiree lobby?

To compare guest workers in the UAE to the Palestinians is pretty disingenuous. First of all Israel is full of guest workers from around the world and they don't face a fraction of the abuse as workers in the Persian gulf. So comparing apples to apples Israel is far ahead.
Secondly Israel and the Palestinians are in an ongoing state of war. And whether you want to believe it or not, even the most liberal countries are all to quick to declare Marshall law at the slightest provocation.
Perhaps you should look up the FLQ Crisis. It took 1 kidnapped minister to strip 6 million people of all their garaunteed fundamental rights.

You see, its easy to protect rights when all is well, but doing so while under constant internal and external threat is another matter entirely.
I would argue that no country has ever been able to protect fundamental human rights as well as Israel given a similarly precarious security situation.

1) Martial. Also Trudeau was a populist windbag.

2) The bolded, of course, is exactly true, and exactly the point.

Nobody would argue that Israel is perfect, especially with respect to how the Palestinian people have suffered, how its democracy functions, or how its society operates.

To be reasonable, criticism cannot be absolute, against a nebulous standard of perfection. It must be comparative, in light of the circumstances, against comparables. And that is something that the haters wilfully ignore or don't seem to quite understand.

The rest of what you guys are talking about is irrelevant, imo.

Here's a unique aspect of Israel. What other country has been actively settling, expelling, and annexing land for most of a century? There's a range of brutality against populations around the world, but not so much settlement expansion.

One could certainly argue China and Russia, just for starters.

There are some parallels, though I haven't heard that the Chinese diaspora can get immediate citizenship and subsidized rent in a Tibetan's home.

lol don't feed the trolls.

but anyway, the correct answer, if we are using his implied, unique definition of "settling", "expelling", and "annexing", is:

Brazil?

US, Canada, every South American country, and pretty much every Asian country not locked in by the Ocean.

China has a very long standing policy of settling Tibet and other conquered territories that started before Jesus was born. The so called "Han" that dominates (90+%) China came from a tiny little province in what's now Central (it used to be "western") China. The early nation of Han is approximately the yellow area on the right.



They conquered, massacred, settled, resettled, and assimilated everyone in every direction until they ran into the Pacific Ocean, Gobi Desert, Paektu Mountains, and the Himalayas.