Not sure what that's a reference too, but it seems like a shot. I assure you I'm not safe. Danger is my middle name.

...and the "naively supporting a genocidal cause"?

Not saying it is, but you didn't address that aspect.

Fwiw, I think BDS by its nature is anti-semitic, but certainly not genocidal in practice.

I have no doubt they would simply prefer Jews not exist, but in practice think they just haven't thought to how Jews would be dealt with after they achieve their goals- an Arab Muslim-controlled state in all of Israel.

Maybe it is just me and my weird sensibilities, but this is where I find more interest. Maybe just because my initial questions that I genuinely don't know never really got answered and I feel like they are important questions. Maybe it is that the tired old "let's talk about how strongly we can condemn X as anti-semitic" debate seems very boring and uninteresting to me.

I take it then that you are not interested in the conflict itself, or human rights, or bigotry, etc; you appear to be only interested in topics that bolster your hate Israel.

Good to know.

It is not my intent to only discuss anti-semitism. It was meant to expose BDS, and without that element it would have been OT for this thread.

I'll take a reread of the Gaza reconstruction post.

What?

I hope i'm wrong, but the treatment of ethnic and religious minorities across the middle east says i'm not, history says i'm not, and the words and actions of Arab Muslim religious and political leaders, and even school teachers, says i'm not.

Even their children's TV programming says i'm not wrong.

But I sincerely hope I am, maybe in 5 years things will change and a peace deal will be struck and 10 years from now when things are calm we can look back and have a good laugh at NC Flounce, and i'll laugh with you :-)

I'm still waiting for that map showing Israel, from a BDS supporter / member / official / website, whatever.

Stop with the Drama-queening, there's nothing "monstrous monstrous" about calling BDS out on what it is, a group designed to isolate and weaken Israel, and it should be pretty obvious by now what will happen if Israel is weakened "enough".

I guess in Uke-land all the people who spend their days, nights, and entire lives moaning about Israel are NEVER genocidal, they're just humanitarians, they're just peace activists,

I wonder, Uke, what % of people do you think in the BDS movement / in support of it are fans of the "back to europe" notion?

Reality is scary, people like Uke like to pretend the reality for Israel has changed because Israel is and has proven itself strong enough to repel the genocidal hordes-

and then somehow he doesn't add 2+2 together successfully when he sees people trying to weaken Israel so much that they can no longer do so.

4, Uke. The answer is 4. And the Arab states still want to push the Jews into the sea, even if they are incapable, even if they have not tried in a while for fear of getting their behind's whooped again.

note that the big thing I don't understand is the degree to which other factors - ie those beyond the Hamas taking of resources - that were mentioned in the earlier article do or do not play a role.

Got it?

lol



Obviously Marty and Cookies are never going to answer the question "why do you post here", but what about you Keed,

Why do you post here? What exactly is your problem with Israel?

Hold on, BDS's goal is an arab muslim-controlled state in all of Israel? Can you link to support this claim? Most BDS supporters I know are two staters.

That's great that you have downgraded from genocidal to just not wanting them to exist, but you are still WAY off. On this characterization I would agree, if they want to eliminate jews from Israel then sure that would be anti-semitic. But wanting to pressure israel to end an occupation and live in peace might be misguided, but it isn't anti-semitic. Heck, even BDS supporting one staters aren't necessarily being anti-semitic, although they are being particularly naive.

[QUOTE=NC Flounce;47890408
I'm still waiting...[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I feel very, very, very little motivation to engage with your posts. Perhaps if you stopped characterizing everything as genocidal then I might be tempted.

Nope

I don't think Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is equitable

Great. so , how many posts do I need to go without referencing genocide / genocidal intent on the part of people attacking Israel (physically, financially, morally, verbally, etc) before you'll provide us a BDS sponsored map of the future in which Israel exists - 10? 100? 1000? Lets say 100.

In 100 posts, you'll conjure up a map from BDS that shows Israel existing within the "green line" , or really, any borders at all of their choosing in which Israel still exists?

Can I get some exceptions- like if Tripy makes a new account and says "hitler should've finished the job" or something, I can call him genocidal, right? You're a partially reasonable guy, i'm sure we can leave out technicalities. You got yourself a deal Uke, I won't refer to BDS-ers as genocidal on purpose or genocidal by accident for 100 posts. And i'll try not to see or hallucinate genocidal intent on the part of any other group in the mean time. Fair?

I think it's quite equitable considering the situations Israel has been put in numerous times from the territories of Jordan and Egypt which now have become considered "Palestinian", and that the people there would have given much worse treatment to Jews if the situation were reversed. We know because they tell us.

Anyway, thanks for your response.

I've asked Keed numerous times and Marty too, why they post here- Do you wonder, like I wonder, why they couldn't just give a simple and concise one line answer like you just did? Feel free to speculate on your composition of your fellow #teampalestine members, since the conversation has partially turned to the composition of the BDS goonsquad and what kind of people make up their cause.

I don't suppose you have some simple, concise suggestions "for Israel" that would make their treatment of Palestinians "equitable" in your eyes, and would cause Senorkeed to say "Today, Palestine is free, and i'm no longer going to obsess over Israel and their every action" ?

I want to know what would make the average -good person- who is "for palestine" say. "I'm Satisfied"

http://www.timesofisrael.com/where-d...and-on-israel/

To be clear- my concern , and I think the concern of most rational people who believe in Israel, is that if a two state solution were devised and implemented today, people who are at the forefront of BDS would not stop. The lies would continue, the boycotts would continue, the disruption of Jewish life, culture, festivals, artists, musicians, academics, would continue, and that there is no satisfying people like BDS who (as Uke is avoiding) want Israel to disappear / be gone / not exist / be destroyed.

I wonder, after a two state solution, will Senorkeed and others still be here, finding new reasons to whine about Israel?

I think a two-state solution that was signed by a representative government of people in the WB and Gaza would pretty much end BDS in North America. There would still be support for fighting Israel among some Islamic groups and probably Europe.

An interesting question though, is how secure and stable could an Arab government that signed a 2-state solution be? Would that be an immediate civil war? How could it even theoretically have as good (I mean bad really) combination of stability and democracy than Egypt.

Ah, so now it's the potential power of BDS that has NC skeptical in a two state solution.

Introducing the BDS Movement
#3 is the operative provision here. According to the UNRWA, there are an estimated 5,000,000 "refugees". Most legitimate estimates are much lower due to UNRWA's methodology, which basically includes anyone that signs up, but let's take that number. BDS has explicitly demanded that Israel absorb 5,000,000 Arabs to add to the 2 million Arabs in Israel. That would give Arabs political control in democratic Israel. Perhaps Muslim control may not materialize, but Arab control certainly.

In fact, we also know what would happen if Israel simply - and infeasibly - returned to 1948 lines. Omar Batghouti, the founder and leader of the international BDS movement, had this to say
In this video, he explicitly says that "ending the occupation" will not be the end of BDS, since the majority of refugees are in exile and "have the right to return".

BDS is explicitly against the two state solution, explicitly against Jews - Barghouti also said the following:
If these aren't enough, I have several more quotes from BDS leaders which explicitly insist that Jews be a minority - or leave to Europe - because their very presence is tantamount to colonialism.

I never said genocidal. Certainly many Arab political groups are genocidal, but BDS is not- at least any more than PigeonPatrol is.

This of course is theoretically true but certainly not in practice.

What? K. lol!

I don't doubt that Islamist groups and terrorists will continue their battle, and that some leftists and bigots will also continue their fight to do harm to Israel. Its a good question, what would happen to Abbas if he signed a two state agreement with Israel. I think Gamblor would have a better idea of Abbas' political situation and his personal longevity if he did so, than I have, or than I could even speculate upon. I think most Palestinians want peace, and can / would be willing to live in peace with Jews or next to Jews in their homeland, the problem is: Peaceful people are generally weak. Violent, warlike, vicious people are eager to act on their impulses, and do not hesitate to take up arms and violence to make their way into reality. Peaceful people , in this case, Palestinians, definitely are not going to pick up arms to "defend" Jews or Israel from their more violent countrymen.

Personally, if a two-state solution - even if agreed upon by the Palestinians, didn't come hand in hand with recognition by the Arab (and maybe Islamic world as a whole? the immediate region is obviously more important for Israel though) world, it wouldn't be worth signing. Even if the Palestinians genuinely dedicated themselves to two states for two peoples, and lived hand in hand with Israelis, it would mean nothing if the rest of the Arab world (on a state level) continues their efforts to destroy Israel.

Lol

Jews still have the majority by over a million in all of Israel/WB/Gaza and when most of the French Jews move to Israel it will be even a bigger margin.

Birth rates of Arabs and Jews are also about the same now with Jewish birth rates rising and Arab rates decreasing.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-C...ography-320574

Your calculation doesn't include Palestinians living across the river in Jordan (who magically, are both citizens of Jordan and have refugee status) or elsewhere in the world - BDS explicitly demands the right of return for those also.

Looking forward to Uke's many, many benefit of the doubts for BDS movement, after now being educated on it by Gamblor, since Uke clearly was uninformed or misinformed before and now has no excuses. Of course, things will be viewed "in a vacuum", ... or outside of a vacuum, really whatever supports his position at the time is how the world gets interpreted in Ukeland... BDS are supposed to be the good guys right? They just want to like, pressure Israel to make peace, cause only Israel can make peace!

Guyz, why won't Israel just make peace with the Arab world?

WARMONGERS!