The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 237: Back to Court - Page 436 - Politics and Economics

Two lies in one sentence.

Trial lawyers say claims only add 2% to medical costs. Ignoring the fact that doctors and hospitals pay lawyers even when they win. Many cases are still pending. Extra unnecessary tests to protect from lawsuits. Consent forms which must be signed before every surgery.

20-5% administrative costs for health insurance isn't negligible.

03-09-2014 , 06:17 PM

#10877

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Consent forms which must be signed before every surgery.

....

03-09-2014 , 06:20 PM

#10878

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Get real Fly. You can't imagine the unnecessary expense of doctors obtaining informed consent before they go doctoring. If we cut out that step, it could literally save minutes per visit.

03-09-2014 , 06:21 PM

#10879

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

Regulating drugs isnt the problem.

It definitely is a problem. Addressing it will definitely improve things.

03-09-2014 , 06:37 PM

#10880

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

It definitely is a problem. Addressing it will definitely improve things.

So I'm putting this together and the new better alternative to Obamacare involves:

1) Unregulated drugs
2) Surgeries without consent
3) Tort reform!

What could possibly go wrong?

03-09-2014 , 06:41 PM

#10881

Riverman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 73,135

Listening to doctors talk about health care policy has been eye opening. With exceptions, they have no ****ing idea what they are talking about and generally oppose even the most common sense reforms because something Obama.

Basically, Ike sadly is representative.

03-09-2014 , 06:45 PM

#10882

[Phill]

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 52,717

Possibly drug regulation is a problem, or at least can be improved, but spending any time even trying is like the band playing on while the Titanic sunk.

If you found the problems and ranked them, in basically any possible methodology, the operation of the FDA is somewhere near the bottom.

03-09-2014 , 06:59 PM

#10883

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

So I'm putting this together and the new better alternative to Obamacare involves:

1) Unregulated drugs
2) Surgeries without consent
3) Tort reform!

What could possibly go wrong?

wheeee another strawman!

03-09-2014 , 08:54 PM

#10884

hoponpop

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

If only we could look at states that have passed tort reform and see if costs were reduced. I wonder if, say, Texas has considered legislation.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/l...h-care-/nRpcp/

This study only looks at costs among the medicare population.

03-09-2014 , 08:55 PM

#10885

hoponpop

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Intuitively that is what you would expect. But again, we have real world data points and tort caps do not actually reduce costs, probably because people still sue a ton, the big winners just win less. And big winners have always been a small percentage of med mal cases.

The article you cited supports literally 0 of this.

03-09-2014 , 08:58 PM

#10886

Riverman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 73,135

The rules for suing are the same for medicare patients as everyone else. The article I cited supports exactly what I claimed. Bonus hilarity, for Ike, for the study confirming a lack of doctors fleeing other jursidictions to practice in Texas.

03-09-2014 , 09:12 PM

#10887

Turn Prophet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

I don't know why we would expect doctors to be policy experts, generally. Doctors are rent-seekers like most other professionals. That Obamacare has some negative consequences for doctors (and some positive ones as well) should not be overly concerning to us.

03-09-2014 , 09:56 PM

#10888

hoponpop

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 177

Quote:

The rules for suing are the same for medicare patients as everyone else. The article I cited supports exactly what I claimed.

Medicare patients utilize very differently from the rest of the population.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

But again, we have real world data points and tort caps do not actually reduce costs

Article is one data point that's based on Medicare patients.

Quote:

, probably because people still sue a ton

, the big winners just win less.

And big winners have always been a small percentage of med mal cases.

Maybe I missed it but I saw nothing in the article regarding frequency or severity of med malpractice awards.

03-09-2014 , 10:13 PM

#10889

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Oh look, riverman thinks he knows more about health care than MDs. Cute.

03-09-2014 , 10:34 PM

#10890

schu_22

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 38,519

yeah im gonna trust a lawyer more than a medical school student on this one

03-09-2014 , 10:42 PM

#10891

hoponpop

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Have you considered the possibility that the shoe is actually on the other foot?

03-09-2014 , 11:00 PM

#10892

Turn Prophet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Oh look, riverman thinks he knows more about health care than MDs. Cute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by schu_22

yeah im gonna trust a lawyer more than a medical school student on this one

Yeah, on the subject of health care law and policy, I'll take the lawyers and law students. I won't argue with ikes about preferred dosing for prescription drugs or options for surgery.

03-09-2014 , 11:13 PM

#10893

schu_22

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 38,519

don't get me wrong ikes if my nose won't stop running or my dick hurts when i pee i'll hit you up for the answers

03-10-2014 , 12:06 AM

#10894

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

ikes the only MD to ever post in this thread literally reposted chain emails and tried to crowdsource his paperwork to 2p2ers. Yes, Riverman knows more about health care policy than many, many MDs.

03-10-2014 , 12:08 AM

#10895

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Like do you guys remember the doctor who put up a sign refusing service to Obama voters:
http://www.alan.com/2010/04/03/docto...ontent=Twitter

Quote:

Cassell: Well you know, I can’t tell you exactly what the deal is.
Colmes: If you can’t tell us exactly what the deal is, why are you opposing it and fighting against it?
Cassell: I’m not the guy who wrote the plan.
Colmes: But if you don’t know what the deal is why are you speaking out against something you don’t know what the deal is?
Cassell: What I get online, just like any other American. What I’m supposed to understand about the bill should be available to me.
Colmes: It is; it’s been online for a long time; it’s also been all over the media…

03-10-2014 , 12:12 AM

#10896

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

ikes the only MD to ever post in this thread literally reposted chain emails and tried to crowdsource his paperwork to 2p2ers. Yes, Riverman knows more about health care policy than many, many MDs.

lol look fly is making **** up again.

03-10-2014 , 12:12 AM

#10897

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turn Prophet

Yeah, on the subject of health care law and policy, I'll take the lawyers and law students. I won't argue with ikes about preferred dosing for prescription drugs or options for surgery.

Yeah just think of all the training lawyers get about the health care system compared to doctors!

03-10-2014 , 06:29 AM

#10898

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

ikes remember when you totally definitely 100% were aware of what changes Obamacare made to large group insurance but you weren't allowed to tell the thread because of... reasons? How much training does it take to read a ****ing press release?

03-10-2014 , 10:11 AM

#10899

neg3sd

banned

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,335

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Get real Fly. You can't imagine the unnecessary expense of doctors obtaining informed consent before they go doctoring. If we cut out that step, it could literally save minutes per visit.

It requires a half hour consultation by specialists. More extra costs.