The GOP war on voting - Page 100 - Politics and Economics

This all is just manufactured anger from the pajama boys so they have something to blame for their crushing loss on Tuesday. It won't be a rejection of leftist policies. It will because millions upon millions of leftists were disenfranchised.

Unlike the Republican scandals, however, the "pajama boys" have actual evidence to base their concerns on:

http://projects.aljazeera.com/2014/double-voters/

Quote:

At the heart of this voter-roll scrub is the Interstate Crosscheck program, which has generated a master list of nearly 7 million names. Officials say that these names represent legions of fraudsters who are not only registered but have actually voted in two or more states in the same election — a felony punishable by 2 to 10 years in prison.

Quote:

The three states’ lists are heavily weighted with names such as Jackson, Garcia, Patel and Kim — ones common among minorities, who vote overwhelmingly Democratic. Indeed, fully 1 in 7 African-Americans in those 27 states, plus the state of Washington (which enrolled in Crosscheck but has decided not to utilize the results), are listed as under suspicion of having voted twice. This also applies to 1 in 8 Asian-Americans and 1 in 8 Hispanic voters. White voters too — 1 in 11 — are at risk of having their names scrubbed from the voter rolls, though not as vulnerable as minorities.

Quote:

In practice, all it takes to become a suspect is sharing a first and last name with a voter in another state. Typical “matches” identifying those who may have voted in both Georgia and Virginia include:

Kevin Antonio Hayes of Durham, North Carolina, is a match for a man who voted in Alexandria, Virginia, as Kevin Thomas Hayes.

John Paul Williams of Alexandria is supposedly the same man as John R. Williams of Atlanta, Georgia.

Robert Dewey Cox of Marietta, Georgia is matched with Robert Glen Cox of Springfield, Virginia.

Quote:

Based on the Crosscheck lists, officials have begun the process of removing names from the rolls — beginning with 41,637 in Virginia alone. Yet the criteria used for matching these double voters are disturbingly inadequate.

Quote:

But despite knowing the names and addresses of 192,207 supposed double voters in the state, Stuber has not nabbed a single one in his five months on the job. Josh Lawson, a spokesman for the board of elections, says, “This agency has made no determination as to which portion of these[lists] represent data error or voter fraud.” In fact, to date, Lawson admits that Stuber has found only errors and not one verified fraudulent voter.

But Lawson did shine a light on the great benefit of the Crosscheck manhunt to the state’s Republican Party, now locked in a tight battle over the U.S. Senate seat of incumbent Democrat Kay Hagan. While the use of Crosscheck has yet to produce a single indictment of a double voter, Lawson says, the program could be used for “list maintenance.” That is, voters on the list, proven guilty or not, could be subject to a process of removal from the voter rolls.

Quote:

Crosscheck instructs each participating state to send a postcard or letter to suspected double voters, requiring them to restate and verify their name and address, sign the card and return it. While this seems a benign way to save one’s voting rights, the problem, says voter advocate Butler, is that few people are likely to notice, fill out and return such a card. She reviewed the one being sent out in Georgia, which she says “looks like a piece of trashy mail that you get every day that you just throw away.”

Direct-mail expert Michael Wychocki was shown a sample postcard. First, he says, 4 percent to 20 percent of any mailing goes astray — leaving voting rights at risk for more than a million citizens simply from wrong and changed addresses. And, crucially, there’s an enormous difference between rich and poor. “The African-American Williams family, renters, may move every year,” he says, “but the Whitehall family in the million-dollar home is barely likely to have moved.”

“It looks as if they’ve broken every direct-marketing rule,” creating a card that seems guaranteed to not be returned, says Wychocki. He explains that marketers know people glance at unsolicited mail for no more than two seconds apiece, and this “single-touch” approach — no follow-up phone calls, emails, radio campaigns or other secondary-outreach methods — ensures a low response rate. Notably, neither Kansas nor other Crosscheck states will reveal how many cards are returned or how many people thereby lose their vote.

11-02-2014 , 10:49 AM

#2477

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

JAAASH- What policies are being rejected?

11-02-2014 , 11:58 AM

#2478

np1235711

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,217

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S...l#.VFZR-jTF-So

Quote:

According to the Rio Arriba County Clerk's office, a voter trying to cast an early ballot in Espanola Saturday was told he had already voted three days prior.

The man told poll workers he hadn't voted. He was then shown the signature of the voter, but he says it wasn't his signature.

Officials say they were able to confirm that the signature on the original ballot did not match the legal voter's signature on file.

Poll workers allowed the man to vote on a provisional ballot, but election officials will have to determine whether the provisional ballot can be counted. Elections officials have no legal means of actually verifying signatures or confirming identification of a voter.

"The poll workers and the Rio Arriba County Clerk’s office did a good job in responding to the situation, following all the procedures available to them," said Bobbi Shearer of the Secretary of State’s office Saturday, "I have nothing, but praise for their efforts to try to ensure integrity in the election. It is just that under current law there are no means available to poll workers to help them determine if a voter is actually the person he says he is."

And hence, the need for a government issued passport-like national ID card.

11-02-2014 , 12:07 PM

#2479

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,991

No, that's a perfect example of why it's so damn hard to pull off in-person voter fraud. You have to know the other person is not going to show up at the polls or it doesn't work. How are you ever going to pull that off in any kind of significant numbers without being detected?

11-02-2014 , 12:27 PM

#2480

zikzak

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Due to an alarming case of probably-not-fraud that was detected and corrected, np again beats the drum for an unconstitutional form of ID that is opposed by pretty much everybody from all across the political spectrum.

11-02-2014 , 12:30 PM

#2481

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

That's where the death panels come in.

11-02-2014 , 01:34 PM

#2482

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JAAASH

Is not a policy problem, it's a messaging problem. No need to change the policies at all.

11-02-2014 , 06:13 PM

#2483

np1235711

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

Seriously curious, why is ID unconstitutional? What clause, article, amendment is violated?

And how is it probably not fraud when when 2 votes are cast under the same name with differing signatures? Is it an accident when clearly one of the 2 voters isn't the actual person or the same person voted twice with differing signatures to have plausible deniability. What other possibilities are there?

And also, as to the "probably-not- fraud", nonsense, from the first line of the linked piece:

Quote:

The first case of voter fraud in New Mexico this election has been confirmed by the Rio Arriba County Clerk's Office.

11-02-2014 , 06:22 PM

#2484

Money2Burn

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Simply sharing the same name is not the lock you seem to think it is re: voter fraud.

11-02-2014 , 06:22 PM

#2485

LASJayhawk

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

Quote:

Originally Posted by np1235711

Seriously curious, why is ID unconstitutional? What clause, article, amendment is violated?

Well it's not,but that won't stop him...

11-02-2014 , 06:33 PM

#2486

campfirewest

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

It sure won't be a rejection of leftist policies, that's for sure.

Why are people going to vote Republicans a majority in the Senate then?

11-02-2014 , 07:00 PM

#2487

LASJayhawk

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Why are people going to vote Republicans a majority in the Senate then?

Not enough people eating lead paint chips to keep the DNC going.

11-02-2014 , 07:02 PM

#2488

bottomset

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Quote:

Originally Posted by campfirewest

Why are people going to vote Republicans a majority in the Senate then?

because there are a lot of ****ty states with no people that vote GOP

11-02-2014 , 07:19 PM

#2489

np1235711

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

Simply sharing the same name is not the lock you seem to think it is re: voter fraud.

So in your learned opinion the local Rio County Clerk's office doesn't realize people have the same last names? I'm not the guy who called it voter fraud. According to the piece linked, the County Clerk's office called it fraud and I'm guessing they realize people sometimes have the same names.

That seriously is your well thought out rebuttal?

Quote:

The first case of voter fraud in New Mexico this election has been confirmed by the Rio Arriba County Clerk's Office.

You guys cling to the notion there is no significant voter fraud/illegal voting/whatever simply because it helps your side , generally.

11-02-2014 , 07:43 PM

#2490

True North

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Quote:

Originally Posted by np1235711

Seriously curious, why is ID unconstitutional? What clause, article, amendment is violated?

AMENDMENT XXIV
Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

11-02-2014 , 07:52 PM

#2491

Money2Burn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by np1235711

.
Considering that I just posted an article about the proliferation of a voter fraud detection system that has proliferated amongst Republican controlled states that identifies voter fraud based entirely on people having the same first and last name, then, yeah, I'm not giving the olds manning the Rio County Clerk's office the benefit of any doubt. Lol, at this story needing a well-thought out rebuttal.

Quote:

You guys cling to the notion there is no significant voter fraud/illegal voting/whatever simply because it helps your side , generally

lololol. Please explain how this story is indicative of significant voter fraud.

11-02-2014 , 08:12 PM

#2492

np1235711

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by True North

I don't see the problem. In my scenario, the government issues a passport like ID to all citizens (by birth, naturalized, etc) at no cost. No poll tax to see here......

Also note, the above amendment says the right to vote is limited to CITIZENS and congress shall enforce this through appropriate legislation.

Well Played!

11-02-2014 , 08:16 PM

#2493

True North

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Quote:

Originally Posted by np1235711

I don't see the problem. In my scenario, the government issues a passport like ID to all citizens (by birth, naturalized, etc) at no cost. No poll tax to see here......

Your scenario has not been proposed by any proponent of ID requirements anywhere, nor is it likely to.

Quote:

Also note, the above amendment says the right to vote is limited to CITIZENS and congress shall enforce this through appropriate legislation.

The voter ID laws on the books do not require IDs that prove citizenship.

11-02-2014 , 08:33 PM

#2494

lew189

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,450

Quote:

Originally Posted by True North

What if the ID cards are free?

11-02-2014 , 08:34 PM

#2495

lew189

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,450

Quote:

Originally Posted by True North

Your scenario has not been proposed by any proponent of ID requirements anywhere, nor is it likely to.

I am proposing it right now. In this thread.

11-02-2014 , 08:36 PM

#2496

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by lew189

What if the ID cards are free?

Replacement birth certificates and marriage licenses must also be free, and they are not free and not federal.

11-02-2014 , 08:44 PM

#2497

[Phill]

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np,

your free mandatory ID for everyone idea is never going to be passed so what is the point in anyone debating it with you?

BTW its worth noting* that many developing nations have solved this multiple voting problem with a pot of permanent ink. Just dip a digit in when you vote and no one with ink on their fingers is allowed to vote. It really is the simplest solutions that are often the best.

* noting it again, I read it in this or a similar thread, like we solved this issue ages ago with no possibility of anyone being disenfranchised, though this thread is so unwieldy and large you would need a wiki page to show how many voter ID arguments got crushed in it

11-02-2014 , 09:30 PM

#2498

lew189

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,450

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Replacement birth certificates and marriage licenses must also be free, and they are not free and not federal.

I don't understand what this has to do with anything.

I'm only asking if you would be against free ID cards (or passports, for discussion purposes) being issued to all US citizens at birth. I understand this is not on the table, but would you be ok with it, hypothetically? If not, why (specifically?)

Last edited by lew189; 11-02-2014 at 09:36 PM.

11-02-2014 , 09:33 PM

#2499

zikzak

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Quote:

Originally Posted by np1235711

As I've explained several times already, the unconstitutionality of a mandatory national ID is based on the 10th Amendment. Identification documents (and voter registration) is a power that belongs to the individual states, NOT the federal government.

Also, the word "fraud" has specific legal meaning. Please learn the difference between a deliberately misleading headline and a criminal conviction. And if it's not asking too much, maybe even consider the wild and crazy possibility that what happened in NM was an innocent mistake like, perhaps, somebody signing their name on the wrong line at the polls?