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01-10-2010 , 05:52 PM
#126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
There is one and only one combination of words that can express your view?
No. Getting more worried also.
01-10-2010 , 11:55 PM
#127
pvn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
No. Getting more worried also.
So you are capable of reformulating your ideas, but you don't see the point in doing so?
01-10-2010 , 11:56 PM
#128
pvn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Lol, Max is just making something up about my view... Next post... well actually i was being cryptic. Nice job. Usually it takes another poster to refute something. Most people who use the phrase right to health care would also think they have a right to police protection. Are cops slaves also? Who isn't a slave using your awful logic?
a) these people are dumb, SCOTUS has already ruled that people are not entitled to police protection, much less have a "right" to it

b) as has already been pointed out, it's not necessarily the providers of the service that are enslaved. There are lots of implementational details that matter.
01-11-2010 , 12:23 AM
#129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
a) these people are dumb, SCOTUS has already ruled that people are not entitled to police protection, much less have a "right" to it
Not really relevant.

Quote:
b) as has already been pointed out, it's not necessarily the providers of the service that are enslaved. There are lots of implementational details that matter.
Let Vhawk explain what he meant if he cares. No proposal of any implementation of health care as a right has anything remotely resembling slavery.
01-11-2010 , 12:53 AM
#130
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Grunching the whole Max/vhawk debacle here:

Did anybody actually argue that UHC ~= slavery?
01-11-2010 , 01:05 AM
#131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardball47
Grunching the whole Max/vhawk debacle here:

Did anybody actually argue that UHC ~= slavery?
Not_in_my_name had some examples of people arguing that in other places on the net. Vhawk seems to want to decouple UHC from the right to health care which seems ridiculous to me because people who claim that health care is a right also say that UHC is sufficient to provide that right
01-11-2010 , 10:09 AM
#132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Not_in_my_name had some examples of people arguing that in other places on the net. Vhawk seems to want to decouple UHC from the right to health care which seems ridiculous to me because people who claim that health care is a right also say that UHC is sufficient to provide that right
Wow, megafacepalm? I know you're smart enough to understand the difference between the converse and the contrapositive.
01-11-2010 , 10:18 AM
#133
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Originally Posted by pvn
Wow, megafacepalm? I know you're smart enough to understand the difference between the converse and the contrapositive.
Pretend he isn't and explain it anyway for dim ones like me.
01-11-2010 , 02:52 PM
#134
pvn
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The fact that UHC is sufficient to satisfy a theoretical "right to health care" (assuming that such a right exists) doesn't imply that UHC is necessary to satisfy it, therefore decoupling them and exploring the right on its own independent of the particular method used to satisfy it is a worthwhile endeavor.

If UHC were necessary (i.e. you can't satisfy the right without it) then it wouldn't make any sense to decouple.
01-11-2010 , 09:05 PM
#135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
The fact that UHC is sufficient to satisfy a theoretical "right to health care" (assuming that such a right exists) doesn't imply that UHC is necessary to satisfy it, therefore decoupling them and exploring the right on its own independent of the particular method used to satisfy it is a worthwhile endeavor.

If UHC were necessary (i.e. you can't satisfy the right without it) then it wouldn't make any sense to decouple.
Lol, obv the people making the claim that health care is a right think that some type of UHC is necessary. Thats kinda a big part of the argument. I only put the sufficient part because I was highlighting that they don't usually propose any sort of expanded system which requires slavery. I don't really know if this right exists because i don't even know what it means for any right to exist.
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