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09-23-2011 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurto
Texas prisons end special last meals in executions


cliffs- The white supremacist orders a lot of food for his last mean and doesn't eat it.

Now Texas ends the entire tradition of giving a dead man his last meal.



I know that these are bad people but come on.... it seems that if the state is going to murder some as punishment you can grant them a last meal of choice within reason. The idea of trying to be human or slightly generous even to criminals is called 'ridiculous.'

Once again I submit that for a supposedly Christian nation most seem to have absolutely no idea what Jesus was about.

Yeah there is such thing a dignity. After all that's what makes us better than the person we are killing. Right?
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09-23-2011 , 12:56 PM
Sen. John Whitmire ------ Democrat.

Jesus. How ****ing bad is it in Texas?

The Senator who takes away condemned prisoner's last tiny sliver of earthly comforts was the more compassionate alternative to the GOP candidate?
09-23-2011 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurto
Once again I submit that for a supposedly Christian nation most seem to have absolutely no idea what Jesus was about.
This at the core of most of our political problems imo.
09-23-2011 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
kurto- Maybe you don't remember the parable of Jesus and the Leper, where Jesus kicked the leper in the face for being dirty? And told everybody not to give them any money because their leprosy was probably punishment from God for living sinful lives? This is basic stuff.
I don't know whether to laugh or sadface.
09-23-2011 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleeingFish
Of course you wont. You cant.
My legal education cost me $100,000 not including scholarships, so if you want me to teach you to sound like you know what you're talking about, it'll cost you.

I'll point you in the right direction though. You puzzlingly bring up an Arkansas habeus statue when the proceedings over the past few years have been either federal or Georgia law. And the recent Georgia proceedings weren't habeus-based, they stemmed from an extraordinary motion for a new trial.

Also, the 11th Circuit's decision on the habeus petition was divided 2-1, and the Georgia Supreme Court's decision on the new trial motion was split 4-3, with a scathing dissent penned by the Chief Justice. I doubt that'll water down your confidence in your position, but it's something to ponder next time you're considering rehashing the tired "All these courts decided against him" victory by numbers routine.
09-23-2011 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurto
fwiw - I was kind of shocked that it wasn't obvious to everyone that you were being sarcastic. I was going to correct him but I thought you might have fun with it and didn't want to ruin it for you.
As I said I thought he may have been trolling me, but I guess I was too eager to believe he was being serious. Again, it's not exactly a stretch given his other positions itt. Anyway, well played.
09-23-2011 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timotheeeee
My legal education cost me $100,000 not including scholarships, so if you want me to teach you to sound like you know what you're talking about, it'll cost you.

I'll point you in the right direction though. You puzzlingly bring up an Arkansas habeus statue when the proceedings over the past few years have been either federal or Georgia law. And the recent Georgia proceedings weren't habeus-based, they stemmed from an extraordinary motion for a new trial.

Also, the 11th Circuit's decision on the habeus petition was divided 2-1, and the Georgia Supreme Court's decision on the new trial motion was split 4-3, with a scathing dissent penned by the Chief Justice. I doubt that'll water down your confidence in your position, but it's something to ponder next time you're considering rehashing the tired "All these courts decided against him" victory by numbers routine.

You spent all that money on legal education and were unaware that new evidence could be presented and even said so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timotheeeee
However, to use it they have to exhaust appeals since you can't introduce new evidence during the appeals process.
Davis and many others do just this.

I do not think you understood my argument. I was arguing how evidence is weighed not the ability of the convicted to present new evidence. I'm sure you will disagree with that as well.
09-23-2011 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by savman
As I said I thought he may have been trolling me, but I guess I was too eager to believe he was being serious. Again, it's not exactly a stretch given his other positions itt. Anyway, well played.
that's true... you showed appropriate suspicion. And we're all guilty of being eager to believe something someone writes at one time or another.

That being said, I think you're wrong in saying "its not a stretch considering his other positions itt" since I would argue I knew he was joking precisely because I was familiar with his positions. His posting was decidedly UNLIKE his normal positions.
09-23-2011 , 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleeingFish
9 eye witnesses resulted in guilty verdict which was upheld by appellate proceedings.
.
Yes.

You have to exhaust your direct appeal and collateral appeal before you can bring in new evidence. These appeals are for procedural/constitutional violation errors. No, I'm not wrong on that.

Here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal

Quote:
Generally speaking the appellate court examines the record of evidence presented in the trial court and the law that the lower court applied and decides whether that decision was legally sound or not. The appellate court will typically be deferential to the lower court's findings of fact (such as whether a defendant committed a particular act), unless clearly erroneous, and so will focus on the court's application of the law to those facts
Quote:
Generally, there is no trial in an appellate court, only consideration of the record of the evidence presented to the trial court and all the pre-trial and trial court proceedings are reviewed
Quote:
—unless the appeal is by way of re-hearing, new evidence will usually only be considered on appeal in very rare instances, for example if that material evidence was unavailable to a party for some very significant reason such as prosecutorial misconduct.
Quote:
rehearing n. conducting a hearing again based on the motion of one of the parties to a lawsuit, petition or criminal prosecution, usually by the court or agency which originally heard the matter. Rehearings are usually requested due to newly-discovered evidence, an unfortunate and possibly unintended result of the original order, a change of circumstance or a simple claim that the judge or agency was just wrong
I'll let you find where it says you can enter new evidence at will. That covers the 2 bolded appeals above.

Next is the habeas corpus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_..._United_States


Quote:
Habeas corpus is an action often taken after sentencing by a defendant who seeks relief for some perceived error in his criminal trial.
Quote:
A writ of habeas corpus is often the last opportunity for the defendant to find relief against his guilty conviction. Habeas corpus may be pursued if a defendant is unsatisfied with the outcome of his appeal and has been refused (or did not pursue) a writ of cert, at which point he may petition one of several courts for a writ of habeas corpus. Again, these are granted at the discretion of the court and require a petition. Like appeals or writs of cert, a writ of habeas corpus may overturn a defendant's guilty conviction by finding some error in the original trial.
Quote:
generally appeals as a matter of right may only address issues which were originally raised in trial (as evidenced by documentation in the official record). Any issue not raised in the original trial may not be considered on appeal and will be considered waived via estoppel.
Estoppel(not an appeal):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel

Quote:
Every thing you've said is wrong, almost. You can present new and compelling evidence of innocence during the appellate procedures. Its why evidentiary hearings take place.
I can give air that this may differ by state. However, here's another citation:

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...-reduction.htm

Quote:
Post-Conviction Petition

If mistakes were made in your case that don't show up in the transcript for some reason, you can't bring them up in your appeal, because the court of appeals only considers facts and evidence that were considered by your trial court. Your are not allowed to introduce new evidence. Mistakes that are based on such new evidence can be raised in a post-conviction petition.

Quote:
You obviously do not know the process.
Obviously.

b
09-23-2011 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
kurto- Maybe you don't remember the parable of Jesus and the Leper, where Jesus kicked the leper in the face for being dirty? And told everybody not to give them any money because their leprosy was probably punishment from God for living sinful lives? This is basic stuff.
Omg...THAT is hilarious.

b
09-23-2011 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleeingFish



Here is a law from Arkansas allowing new evidence to be introduced. It's similar to many other states and can be introduced during the appeals process.

http://law.justia.com/codes/arkansas...-2/16-112-201/

Plain and simple. Tell what was presented at Troy Davis evidentiary hearing during his appeal process.
Here's a part you missed:

Quote:
(a) Except when direct appeal is available
Do you know what this means? See direct appeals above.

b

Last edited by bernie; 09-23-2011 at 09:40 PM.
09-24-2011 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurto
Now Texas ends the entire tradition of giving a dead man his last meal.

I know that these are bad people but come on.... it seems that if the state is going to murder some as punishment you can grant them a last meal of choice within reason. The idea of trying to be human or slightly generous even to criminals is called 'ridiculous.'

Once again I submit that for a supposedly Christian nation most seem to have absolutely no idea what Jesus was about.
I wasn't aware that prisoners were hungry in this country.

I know Christian principles encourage the feeding of the hungry.

I am not aware of a Christian principle to give food to anyone who demands it, even those who are well fed.

Why give a last meal when there are real hungry people, many of them children, who the state could feed instead with the same tax payer money being used for last meals.

A fancy last meal seems to be some sort of reward. What are we trying to reward here, that the person committed a serious crime?
09-24-2011 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boa Hancock
Why give a last meal when there are real hungry people, many of them children, who the state could feed instead with the same tax payer money being used for last meals.
If the money were really the issue then you should be pushing to outlaw capital punishment altogether since it's ridiculously expensive.

Quote:
A fancy last meal seems to be some sort of reward. What are we trying to reward here, that the person committed a serious crime?
Fancy? Lol. Almost all last meals are stuff like hamburgers or fried chicken. GMAFB.
09-24-2011 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
If the money were really the issue then you should be pushing to outlaw capital punishment altogether since it's ridiculously expensive.
Dude conservatives have things guzzling WAY more money higher on their hit list, like ACORN and Planned Parenthood and the National Endowment for the Arts, that are basically bankrupting our country

Last edited by goofyballer; 09-24-2011 at 05:24 PM. Reason: which is precisely why we need to broaden the tax base and get the bottom 50% to chip in some of their 2% of the wealth!
09-24-2011 , 06:00 PM
Pretty much speechless at people who can't see fit to give someone you're going to execute a last meal of their choice. lololol at using an economic angle. Boa, perhaps you could look up how much Texas spends on last meals for death row prisoners? I expect a new thread on the level of the DOJ waste on conferences.
09-25-2011 , 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boa Hancock
I wasn't aware that prisoners were hungry in this country.

I know Christian principles encourage the feeding of the hungry.

I am not aware of a Christian principle to give food to anyone who demands it, even those who are well fed.

Why give a last meal when there are real hungry people, many of them children, who the state could feed instead with the same tax payer money being used for last meals.

A fancy last meal seems to be some sort of reward. What are we trying to reward here, that the person committed a serious crime?

did you seriously just suggest denial of a last meal?
09-25-2011 , 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimcof
did you seriously just suggest denial of a last meal?

When was the last time the murder victim was mentioned in this thread?

Its been a while. Why is that?

And I'm curious, was he offered a last meal before being murdered?
09-25-2011 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn

Fancy? Lol. Almost all last meals are stuff like hamburgers or fried chicken. GMAFB.
racist ban
09-25-2011 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleeingFish
VOTE!!!!!

I do not agree with the death penalty, but I also do not agree with not upholding hold law.
You are correct, one perfectly legal, institutional way of changing an unjust law is ok, while another perfectly legal, institutional way of changing an unjust law is "not upholding" law....

You may not like jury nullification, but it is the law, so unfortunately you are stuck upholding it....see how you cant actualy win?
09-25-2011 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boa Hancock
When was the last time the murder victim was mentioned in this thread?

Its been a while. Why is that?

And I'm curious, was he offered a last meal before being murdered?
Hopefully you're just trolling now.
09-25-2011 , 10:22 AM
Pretty sure the death penalty doesn't change the crime rate so it truly is pointless. Ya when it involved something like drugs then your average Joe isn't going to do drugs for fear of death. But murder will happen whether their is a death penalty or not.

I only support the death penalty in extreme cases and would prefer not to have it at all. Someone like a Ted Bundy would deserve the death penalty. But some gangster dude who kills a guy over a dispute that is different. That guy just deserves life in prison or something like that.
09-25-2011 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluffzorz
Pretty sure the death penalty doesn't change the crime rate so it truly is pointless. Ya when it involved something like drugs then your average Joe isn't going to do drugs for fear of death. But murder will happen whether their is a death penalty or not.

I only support the death penalty in extreme cases and would prefer not to have it at all. Someone like a Ted Bundy would deserve the death penalty. But some gangster dude who kills a guy over a dispute that is different. That guy just deserves life in prison or something like that.
It might if you brought back public executions.
09-25-2011 , 11:25 AM
It might if you put the men in dresses and the women you dress up as manga characters.
09-25-2011 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluffzorz
Pretty sure the death penalty doesn't change the crime rate so it truly is pointless.
China executes way more people than any other country. Check the murder rates(or violent crime period)of cities like Beijing or Shanghai. These are way safer than American cities.
09-25-2011 , 12:51 PM
Its pretty stunning that you would think citing one country makes for a good argument that the death penalty is a deterrent.

If we're going to play the correlation equals causation game, I'm interested as to why European countries without the death penalty manage such low murder rates.
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