lol champstark. You're an extreme life nit if ecig vapor bothers you to the point you want them banned everywhere cigarettes are banned.

The basis of his argument is that they should be banned because of the smoke. Pointing out that there is no smoke invalidates his argument and is therefore ikesian semantics because something something people sometimes use similar words for both.

Bulletproof, imo.

nit up?

I mean, exactly.

I've been selling nicotrol inhalers for years now and nobody has complained. A humongous benefit of nicotine replacement products is not having to go outside to use them.

So is this thread finished?

e-cigs: massively better than regular cigarettes and a great alternative them, still probably worse than not being addicted to nicotine, harmless to those not smoking them?

except for lolwater vapor?

Why are people going so hard in da paint for e-cigs?

It's not like there's been a complete study on them. And scientists have said they're not 100% safe like white knights of them would like people to believe.

I think making e-cigs illegal altogether is fine.

Really? You have to ask why something that has the potential to save millions of lives and billions of dollars in medical costs has earnest defenders? This is a mystery to you?

And to repeat this from the last time we discussed it, if you want me to be paranoid about the "zOMG we don't know if its safe!!1!!1!" angle, you need to start with a plausible reason why I should be overly concerned about ingesting FDA GRAS substances. Every single one of the lol 4 or 5 ingredients in the liquids we vape are products that most people consume every single week. We've been putting these substances into our bodies for decades and centuries with no ill effects. Where, exactly, do you think researchers should start looking? How would you suggest they go about proving a negative?

And finally, why aren't YOU vaping? You said you still smoke. Are you crazy?

Why you are smoking or vaping anything nicotine-related period is the better question.

Because he's stressed about humanity's future after reading your posts?

Low level nicotine has a bunch of positive effects. Once we get the death and destruction of cigarettes out of the nicotine equation then we can better make decisions based on that knowledge.

I don't know if what you're seeing is people going hard for e-cigs as much as going hard for logic in common sense given the shape the specific objections against e-cigs in this thread have taken.

The argument that there may be unidentified dangers is a valid one. Of course it's hard to see how they'd be worse than regular cigs for somebody who is already smoking- so I don't know that banning them makes sense in that context.

The argument that they smell however, is just silly at face (specifically the nose part) value.

Yes, all of this. NOW BAN THEM

Go on

wait wat?

They should be legal the same way medical marijuana is legal. If you are addicted to smoking and can't quit then a doctor should be able to prescribe e-cigs so that you can satisfy your addiction without poisoning yourself and your kids. Usage should be limited to your own home.

Bans are just knee-jerk reactions to people who are appalled by seeing smoking in public, and see this as some kind of loophole for those dirty smokers to still get their fix in the presence of others, and lack of knowledge about the possible dangers/annoyances of being near one.

What is the harm in doing it outside your home?

There's not expansive data like there is on cigarettes. Fifty or sixty years of research. But there are studies showing reduced lung capacity of vaporheads. But not enough data to determine the true nature of e-cigs.

Has anyone looked into what stuff other than nicotine and (I assume) water vapor are used with e-cigs? Like what exactly are users inhaling???

Nicotine
Propylene Glycol
Vegetable Glycerin

That's the basics and they are all FDA approved. Some people prefer more PG or VG, I use a mostly VG blend and very little nicotine.

Then a dash of flavoring and those vary wildly from flower oils to synthetic acids. Mostly they are all also FDA approved chemicals and most types you buy will have the ingredient list readily available. It's rarely longer than 5 or 6 ingredients long.

You know what diminishes lung capacity 10,000x worse than anything they've ever found from glycol vapor? Smoking tobacco.

I don't even get what your angle is on this topic, Paul. Your nicotine addiction is probably going to kill you. Mine probably isn't now, thanks to e-cigs. You're fighting for... what, here? The right to not have options and the freedom to deny those options to others as well?

What is it about the idea of vaporizing substances everybody already puts into their body every single week that is MORE frightening than smoking tobacco?

Propylene Glycol is the key ingredient in antifreeze and is highly toxic.

Vegetable Glycerin when heated up 150 degrees begins to produce a toxic smoke (acrolein).

But don't worry, I'm sure the FDA has your best interests in mind.

The less you use e-cigs and tobacco the longer you'll live, so the harder you make it for people the less they will use.

Banning e-cigs makes little sense to me as well.

I'm guessing tobacky companies spread some wealth around to get the votes passed. Are the bans only in liberal cities?

Grunched this thread, but did anyone find some actual reasoning from the pols who proposed and voted for these bans? That would be interesting.

Oh, other states are banning sales to minors, which lead to addictions to nicotine. That makes sense. Still not sure why they would ban public vaping for adults, unless cities are unable to pass local ordinances banning sales to specific groups (minors), so cities are taking the lead as states drag their feet? CT has a state ban to minors in the works.

I puffed them a couple of times. Seemed too ultralight. I need to try some others and make the leap or give this -EV habit up.