the bar never stops moving back itt. It truly is amazing. Clear limits placed by the doe aren't actually limits! Good ****ing show bros

Obviously if you assume only 1 or 2 students a year get unfairly expelled or suspended and labeled a rapist, it's not a huge problem in the grand scheme of things. I would argue the problem is far more common than that, and I think anyone with any experience on a college campus would know that, just by common sense.

How often do these cases involve 2 drunk people? How often are both parties drunk, but not incapacitated? How often are both parties incapacitated?

The whole point of the original post ITT was that drunk sex does not equal rape, yet colleges keep getting this basic yet important fact wrong. The person who wrote the letter is an expert in the field whose opinion carries far more weight than Fly, or you, or a bunch of people who think the entire argument for basic fairness must boil down to misogyny and "bitches be lying".

The cases posted about here are only the cases we have the best idea of what happened that night because of text messages or someone else being in the room. That isn't going to be the norm.

And there's nothing wrong with either of those things. They are completely reasonable recommendations.

It is nonsensical to blame this result on the memo.

Right, so it's nonsense to blame the memo for limiting cross when we have plenty of stories about the process not containing serious cross. Okey dokey

Hilarious considering ikes is having a moral panic about two guys getting tossed from school.

Yeah, rape is just like those other things that don't really exist. Classy.

It doesn't exist in one in four or one in five college women.

OK and thus we finally, finally get to the actual issue. Which, people may note, was identified as the actual issue on page goddamn one:

ikes wants us to know that bitches be lying.

The end. Full stop. That's it. All this bull**** about mens rea, standards of proof, cross examination... it's just flailing. The actual problem is that ikes gets FURIOUS when he sees thinkpieces about "rape culture" in the lamestream press, but no articles at all about how bitches be lying except in the right wing fever swamps of the internet.



Or is it your issue that liberals being angry about a problem plagues a mere 1 in 6 or 1 in 8 women is hypocrisy because they aren't equally angry about a problem that plagues 2 dudes? because that doesn't seem like hypocrisy! That seems like having priorities.

Guys the biggest problem with rape in america isnt the rapes or the sexual assaults, it is that the feminists latched onto that 1/5 stat too fervently. Heck, the real stat could be 1/50 and we are still safely out of satantic ritual comparison territory, but honestly the line is so good I can't fault ike for keyboard spazzing it out.

http://onwardstate.com/2015/06/30/pe...assault-model/


Not really sure how to post articles so they show up in the post, so apologize for the clunky link. Had a friend post this today who attends Penn State, which for ROW is one of the biggest colleges in US. They are implementing this new plan about how to deal with sexual assault on campus.

Wug? Seems like a step in the right direction imo. More fair than a single admin making a gut call or just a few students ruling on matters. I know lots will still have a problem with preponderance std, but still, interested to hear what people have to say about it.

Just in case it's not obvious because you haven't thought about it, one in four women being raped in college would easily justify massive interventions to stop that Sudan level disaster. One in 50 does not.

ikes is it your position that massive intervention has happened?

Was that massive intervention the memo? Have you figured out which parts of the memo you disagree with yet?

Does leaving what "appropriate and relevant questions" exactly means a little vague and open to individual universities sound like massive sudan lvl disaster response to you?

Incidentally, I'm assuming there is a crazy feminist who will say anything, but is 1/4 rape (ie differentiating from sexual assaults generally) actually commonly said?

1/4, 1/5 is said all the ****ing time. It's been parroted by obama ffs.

1 in 4, 1 in 5, 1 in 50... who cares about the numbers really? I say just go with 1 in 2. Sure it's exaggerated, but who has time to care about accuracy when women are being RAPED?

Ah right, so he is referencing the CDC survey, which includes both rape and attempted rape (as mentioned by obama), and includes drunken nonconsent cases. And the 1/4 he said some level of domestic violence...not just rape, silly. One can bicker about methodological problems, but on those definitions I doubt it is order of magnitude wrong.

But again, so ****ing what? If you want to mock people for latching onto the most alarming statistics on an issue well go ahead. The rest of us will prefer to focus on real problems like, say, rape, and not the horrible societal evil of "OMG THEY USED TEH WRONG STATS THE HORROR".

That's not what he is referencing. He's referencing a poll of two universities using extremely strange language to conflate rape with unwanted sexual contact. No idea what you're talking about.

To repeat myself.... rape is a problem. However, 1 in 5 is how many people are forcefully raped in places like Darfur. That would be worth massive interventions. 1 in 50 with rapes steadily declining in a decades long trend means that the massive interventions are completely unnecessary.

No one says it's one in 50. No one. Try again.

READ.
READ.

Take 2 deep breaths.

Then try to post so you don't make a complete fool of yourself.

Polifact sure thinks he is referencing what I said he was: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-has-been-rap/ which was 12k people nation wide. But either way, your characterization of what he said is STILL wrong.

What massive interventions? Hypothetical ones that haven't actually happened? Or is leaving the meaning of " "appropriate and relevant questions" a little vague your idea of a massive intervention?

This is good advice, you should have followed it. I didn't say 1/50 was the real number. It was a clear and obvious hypothetical.

Ikes. What is the number ?

Since we are here though..

Talk me through a few more.

Where is the number of actual rapes that takes us over "witch trial" territory.

What about one which takes us out of "it's all cool Bros! We don't need to do anything, leave it to the police and the courts, they are doing a fine job"

rofl take your own advice and come back. I didn't say you said it was the real number either. I pointed out why I said 1 in 50.

Quibbling about the exact number simply isn't as important as you're trying to make it. It's far less than 20% during college. Rapes aren't happening at the same level they are in war torn Africa. Furthermore, the number has been going down, and going down for decades despite it being easier to report rape (not easy enough, but easier).

uke-

Seems like I was wrong about what Obama was talking about. I think you can understand my confusion.

As for massive interventions, that's basically the 'yes means yes' laws. Those have started out as just for college laws, but there's currently a push to make them the law covering all sexual contact. Those laws are so overly broad that it would make basically every man and woman a rapist if they were ever reported.

Well, problem ****ing solved then, right?

Wait but I thought this was about the memo, or about the definition of drunk, or the preponderance standard of evidence, or the mens rea requirement when the accused is also drunk, or about the cross examination procedures?