The CIA's Torture Campaign - Page 20 - Politics and Economics

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The CIA's Torture Campaign

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12-11-2014 , 10:55 AM

#476

13ball

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 12,912

Quote:

Originally Posted by martymc1

****ing hell.

Make Abe stop.

The forum needs a resident terrorism supporter, imo.

12-11-2014 , 10:58 AM

#477

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,485

12-11-2014 , 10:59 AM

#478

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

Quote:

Originally Posted by raradevils

But here’s what I can tell you —- that the public reports and the public justifications for these techniques -— which is that we got information from these individuals that were subjected to these techniques– doesn’t answer the core question, which is: Could we have gotten that same information without resorting to these techniques? And it doesn’t answer the broader question: Are we safer as a consequence of having used these techniques?"

Again, you are missing the whole point of the report, which is that the "public justifications" were CIA lies. The report said NO we DID NOT get useful information from torture. It didn't work. It did not accomplish what it was supposed to accomplish. The CIA lied.

That's a very important key point that you're having a hard time understanding. The program didn't work, and the CIA lied about it.

Quote:

Like I said, we will never know the truth on these matters. Obama said by his statement that there was information yielded.

That is not what Obama said. Read it again.

12-11-2014 , 11:01 AM

#479

TheDuker

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,388

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinopoker

So you're okay with what exactly? Just the waterboarding and other EITs, or are you fine with all the rest? Beating prisoners with sticks, raping them with sharp object, cutting off fingers and other limbs? How about electro shock, or stuff like having them slowly eaten by insects, or some ****? I mean there's lots of messed up ways to torture people, Do you draw the line anywhere, or are you just fine with going to the full Nazi play book from WWII?

Dick Cheney has an answer for you and it's this: “What are you prepared to do to get the truth against future attacks against the United States?”

The Abe Schmuckfeld's of the world endorse torturing people to death, so there's obviously no line to draw for them.

The funny thing about that Cheney article is that he admits he didn't read the report, offers no contrary facts or evidence, and just calls it "deeply flawed" and "full of crap".

12-11-2014 , 11:02 AM

#480

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,054

Quote:

Originally Posted by raradevils

Obama's own words:

But here was President Obama:

" I am absolutely convinced it was the right thing to do [to end enhanced interrogation] —- not because there might not have been information that was yielded by these various detainees who were subjected to this treatment, but because we could have gotten this information in other ways, in ways that were consistent with our values, in ways that were consistent with who we are.

But here’s what I can tell you —- that the public reports and the public justifications for these techniques -— which is that we got information from these individuals that were subjected to these techniques– doesn’t answer the core question, which is: Could we have gotten that same information without resorting to these techniques? And it doesn’t answer the broader question: Are we safer as a consequence of having used these techniques?"

Like I said, we will never know the truth on these matters. Obama said by his statement that there was information yielded.

Nobody doubts that there was information yielded. Guess what -- any ****ing method will yield information. We could have you personally provide blowjobs to terror suspects and it would yield information, but it wouldn't make it right.

12-11-2014 , 11:04 AM

#481

Ineedaride2

Politics Court Jester

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 25,080

Quote:

Originally Posted by raradevils

So an article filled with half truths is supposed to be abe all end all? Hardly when there are officials that point out that without water boarding KSM we wouldn't have been able to thwart other attacks. You mean that article....gotcha

http://www.wsj.com/articles/louis-j-...sia-1418259652

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...the_means.html

One link is behind a paywall, and the other link is Dick Cheney on Fox.

12-11-2014 , 11:06 AM

#482

Jbrochu

banned

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,054

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDuker

For my country, I am personally willing to flip the switch and watch Dick Cheney die, should he ever face charges and get convicted for the crimes he's committed against the United States.

That would keep us a lot safer than anything that clown achieved.

12-11-2014 , 11:06 AM

#483

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Hey raradevils, given you have been wrong about, well, literally everything that you posted on through your entire posting history, why do you expect that you have any credibility here?

No one with any knowledge of your history actually believes anything besides that you are, once again, kowtowing to big government anytime it doesn't involve taxes.

No one believes you had "higher than top secret" clearance as like a 20 year old noted dullard.

12-11-2014 , 11:14 AM

#484

raradevils

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

Hey raradevils, given you have been wrong about, well, literally everything that you posted on through your entire posting history, why do you expect that you have any credibility here?

No one with any knowledge of your history actually believes anything besides that you are, once again, kowtowing to big government anytime it doesn't involve taxes.

No one believes you had "higher than top secret" clearance as like a 20 year old noted dullard.

I don't care that you don't believe me, you troll me when and where ever I post (in the political section of the forums)

um..I worked/did tours in communication on board submarines specifically the USS Sam Rayburn and USS Andrew Jackson.

12-11-2014 , 11:22 AM

#485

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Well, as someone else said, given your combination of posting history, low IQ, and desire to bootlick for authority as long as that authority isn't a black president, you don't have any credibility and you are getting mocked in the bad poster thread and ignored by the rest. Enjoy!

12-11-2014 , 11:23 AM

#486

DrawNone

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 5,023

you think, as an enlisted man on a submarine, you had access to information that the Senate Intelligence Committee didnt see?

you saw information by accident that informs you more than a congressional committee that was investing the issue?

12-11-2014 , 11:24 AM

#487

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Not only that, he saw that information like 30 years ago.

12-11-2014 , 11:36 AM

#488

kimoser22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,835

Quote:

Originally Posted by raradevils

Did your politics ever influence your decision to be a submariner? Don't ask, Don't tell?...I kid, I kid

On a serious note, it seems like a decent amount of the rank-and file were against torture. Bloomberg Intercept

12-11-2014 , 11:40 AM

#489

raradevils

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrawNone

I didn't see information by accident, it was my job to go thru the intel that was sent across the wires to take what was specifically sent to our ship/commander and give to him.

I was using my history as a reference as to how information gets reported and how that info varies from what actually happened.

12-11-2014 , 11:45 AM

#490

raradevils

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

Well, as someone else said, given your combination of posting history, low IQ, and desire to bootlick for authority as long as that authority isn't a black president, you don't have any credibility and you are getting mocked in the bad poster thread and ignored by the rest. Enjoy!

You might care what other people think about you, I don't.

12-11-2014 , 11:46 AM

#491

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by raradevils

So how exactly did we get OBL? People just willingly gave him up for 3 squares and a cot?

If you think we didn't get any info from water boarding people I have a bridge to sell you that runs from NJ to NYC.

Maybe you should try researching the topic instead of just imagining how it worked.

12-11-2014 , 11:51 AM

#492

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Quote:

Originally Posted by raradevils

You might care what other people think about you, I don't.

Yeah, we understand that from your history of posting unresearched nonsense.

12-11-2014 , 11:54 AM

#493

Turn Prophet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,558

If you think government ought to be allowed to torture anyone, you don't get to claim to be for "limited government" anymore. Ever.

12-11-2014 , 11:55 AM

#494

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by raradevils

I don't care that you don't believe me, you troll me when and where ever I post (in the political section of the forums)

Don't sweat it, it's standard practice for some reason. Still, you must realise that 'higher than top secret' isn't going to go down well unless you can offer something pretty solid.

I don't agree with you on this report though quite honestly that's in a large part because I didn't trust them or their practices an inch before the report and I have a fair bit of respect for Obama.

If the boot was on the other foot and it was a report justifying what they did then I would be pretty skeptical of it and I suspect so would they.

12-11-2014 , 11:56 AM

#495

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13ball

The forum needs a resident terrorism supporter, imo.

No, we don't.

12-11-2014 , 12:18 PM

#496

Turn Prophet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,558

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

No, we don't.

I think that could be a fun new under-title. "Torture Apologist." Frankly, I don't think Charles Krauthammer, Dick Cheney et al should be allowed to be brought up in polite company without this prefix.

12-11-2014 , 12:20 PM

#497

FeralCreature

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,148

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turn Prophet

If you think government ought to be allowed to torture anyone, you don't get to claim to be for "limited government" anymore. Ever.

It's time for some people to just acknowledge that they're fascist scum. That's really all there is to say on the matter.

12-11-2014 , 12:47 PM

#498

stockguy3205

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 621

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ineedaride2

One link is behind a paywall, and the other link is Dick Cheney on Fox.

ProTip: Any article behind a paywall can be accessed by using google

12-11-2014 , 12:49 PM

#499

stockguy3205

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 621

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turn Prophet

If you think government ought to be allowed to torture anyone, you don't get to claim to be for "limited government" anymore. Ever.

People aren't allowed to think their government should treat It's citizens one way and foreign terrorist another?

12-11-2014 , 01:00 PM

#500

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockguy3205

People aren't allowed to think their government should treat It's citizens one way and foreign terrorist another?

If they turn out not to be terrorists, well, just have to break a few brown skinned eggs to make an omelette amirite? Not like their lives matter anyways since they aren't part of USA#1

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