This is exactly why it’s such terrible politics. I’m pulling my hair out at how badly Corbyn is butchering Labour’s response to this cluster****

A competent opposition ought to be murder smashing this government right now.

Not All then

Labour's options after a vote of no confidence does not equal Labour's options regarding the type of Brexit. These are not the same thing and you suggesting they are, this is a mistake.

You not understanding Labour's position is not terrible politics.

Corbyn is frustrating me also, I have no idea what he is up to.

It's an incredibly bad response.

Yep, perhaps this terrible response is partly driven by how heavily skewed towards remain his party is. That's a tough spot to be in when you are a closet Brexiteer (as I believe Corbyn probably is). I think he is also wanting to try and put pressure on May by demanding she do something that she should be unwilling to do.

Regardless, his response has made him look awful. Perhaps he is trying to be clever, but it is not coming across like that. Taking no deal off the table is a poor choice for the Brexit negotiations.

There's loads to negotiate with here.

Bad messaging is bad politics.

I think one of us doesn't understand the word 'All'

Lots of people get it, lots of people see what they want, it's kind of how we work.

The DUP made some positive noises about getting some changes to the withdrawal agreement after coming out of No 10 at lunchtime.

Is the end to all of this going to be the UK having a unilateral way to exit the backstop? If that was in the withdrawal agreement it would probably pass through Parliament.

I don't think you understand much at all tbh.

Given that the majority of parliament doesn't want no deal, the majority of the country doesn't want no deal, the majority of the government doesn't want no deal and the majority of Labour party voters and members doesn't want no deal why is taking it off the table terrible?

If no deal was guaranteed off the table what possible reason would the EU have for either varying the Withdrawal Agreement or extending Article 50? They could simply sit tight, safe in the knowledge that we would have to either accept May's roundly rejected deal (which is an utter abomination for the United Kingdom), or revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU permanently.

The EU most definitely don't want no deal. They have German cars and French wine and plenty more to sell to us, £39bn to collect from us. We spend a lot more in the EU than we sell to them as a nation.

Of course a deal that works for both parties is best. Neither side is going to get everything they want and their has to be compromise but a fair solution can be found. Without the threat of no deal the EU has no reason to give the UK anything.

The EU have said that the WA can be changed if the government want to come back with substantive changes to their red lines but not if not, given that a No Deal brexit is bad for Britain and given that JC isn't actually negotiating with the EU but May why should he allow her to wield the threat of a No Deal Brexit to get agreement on her deal with minor amendments.

Keeping No Deal as an option puts Corbyn in the position of accepting her deal with minor amendments or being held responsible for falling off a cliff. No. You think the EU are playing games I think the EU has made clear time and time again what options are available based on May's red lines.

Has there been a recent poll conducted that shows how the college educated in England are leaning when the question is simply Leave or Remain?

loads of recent polls. Some minor shift to remain, but nothing significant. You run a ref on leave/remain tomorrow, no one knows what the real result will be, that's how little it's shifted despite 3 years of project fear and people being called stupid racists by those loving that cuddly supranational anti-democracy we call the EU

Awww you trust the EU to give ground if we give up the one bargaining chip we have left, despite it playing hardball for 2 years. That's cute.

How are you inferring that from what I wrote?

Do you guys think Corbyn is quite thick? He's really coming across like that, more and more. Just wondered what people thought.

I'm inferring it from your slightly bewildered attitude about why we should keep the no deal option alive through this thread.

No because there is a difference between the two questions

1) What approach will the LP take post NC vote
A) All options are on the table

2)What types of Brexit will Labour allow
A) Not all options are on the table

These are consistent because they are different responses to different questions.

Okay specifically how are you inferring that I believe the EU will move if we remove No Deal?

you think the EU will do us a favour if we remove no deal as an option.

IF we do, the EU will (a) laugh their arses off, (b) not move at all unless movement is something they can further make gain from.

They will certainly make no movement whatsoever to make the deal better for the UK, which they would be more inclined to do if no deal remains available.

This is level 1 negotiation tactics. I'm kind of shocked that anyone over the age of maybe 13 doesn't know that kind of basic stuff.

I'm kind of still surprised how many people see the EU as a cuddly cooperative organisation, when it's clearly coercive right up the the line of its power - and when it gets new powers, it gets steadily more coercive (to members and non-member states alike). Every. Single. Time.


Wanna join? Euro/Schengen or no deal.
Wanna leave? You'll be sorry...

You still haven't answered the question, you claimed I said that if we removed no deal from the table the EU would give ground. I didn't suggest that and I'm not sure where you are inferring it from.

What I actually said was that the EU have made clear that if we were to offer movement on May's red lines, like customs union freedom of movement etc that other types of deal would be available not that the EU would move if we took No Deal off the table.