Brexit Referendum - Page 526 - Politics and Economics

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12-15-2018 , 09:11 AM

#13126

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 66,083

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoopie1

Wrong, as Major and Blair will have done whatever they did with the approval of parliament.

By that definition you don't get a say on any of our laws. Judging by your posts, this is no bad thing.

The only way major sovereign powers should be given up is by referenda. Not on the flip of a here today gone tomorrow numpty

If those two treaties had had referenda, we would not be in this position today imo.

Last edited by diebitter; 12-15-2018 at 09:25 AM.

12-15-2018 , 09:13 AM

#13127

joejoe1337

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 16,311

Quote:

Originally Posted by diebitter

The only way major sovereign powers should be given up is by referenda.

If those two treaties had had referenda, we would not be in this position today imo.

Just for a second, think of every treaty we've ever signed that gives up some power. I assume you think our membership of NATO is illegitimate in that case?

It's an incredibly arbitrary rule you've got there. Almost like you made it up on the spot with no thought to what it actually means.

12-15-2018 , 09:18 AM

#13128

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Command and control applied selectively like da nazis.

12-15-2018 , 09:21 AM

#13129

SootedPowa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,846

The way it stands just now is fully in the EU we do have our sovereignty as we can leave at any point of our own choosing (Article 50).

Unfortunately this Theresa May "deal" truly does sign away our sovereignty due to the fact we cannot exit the backstop unless the EU agrees we can, nor is their a set time limit on it. We have never in our history completely signed away our powers like that before and it is mind boggling that the Prime Minister of the UK thinks this would be a good thing.

12-15-2018 , 09:26 AM

#13130

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 66,083

Quote:

Originally Posted by SootedPowa

She's been schmoozed into it by EU 'assurances'

12-15-2018 , 09:29 AM

#13131

Hoopie1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 26,360

Quote:

Originally Posted by diebitter

This is a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact that you were wrong.

12-15-2018 , 09:32 AM

#13132

SootedPowa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,846

Quote:

Originally Posted by diebitter

She's been schmoozed into it by EU 'assurances'

Agree, but that is completely incompetent from a prime minister. It's pretty clear to anyone with a brain what is going to happen in the medium-long term if that deal is ratified.

What's even more scary is how she is using every single one of the powers at her disposal to try and get it through.

12-15-2018 , 09:34 AM

#13133

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Smchoozed into it folks. If only BJ or JRM were in charge. They’re not for schmoozing.

12-15-2018 , 09:36 AM

#13134

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Quote:

Originally Posted by SootedPowa

It's pretty clear to anyone with a brain what is going to happen in the medium-long term.

Yup.

12-15-2018 , 09:40 AM

#13135

bacalaopeace

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by diebitter

No.

I and many others want to stop the EU command and control over the UK

This kind of thinking is so low level that it has a lot to do with why the EU is able to reconcile itself to the brexit. The UK is like a spouse that doesn't look that good anymore, never wants sex, generates a lot of headaches, and whines a lot about sovereignty. Suddently the spouse proposes divorce and the other, rejected spouse at first has some doubts, but after watching the meltdown and fighting over who gets to walk the dog on Tuesdays, finds that it's easier to come terms with ceding custody of the children, who are sort of a bother anyway, and starts looking for a younger Eastern European to live with.

12-15-2018 , 09:41 AM

#13136

SootedPowa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,846

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiMor29

Smchoozed into it folks. If only BJ or JRM were in charge. They’re not for schmoozing.

She is incompetent and only cares for her own legacy of "delivering brexit". Without a doubt the worst prime minister of all of our lifetimes.

The EU must not have believed their luck at having to face a UK negotiating team comprising soley of Theresa May.

We need someone firm who would not make empty threats and if there cannot be an acceptable compromise (where the UK can unilaterally exit the backstop and spill into a no deal scenario) then we leave on 29th March 2019 on WTO terms with no payments made.

12-15-2018 , 09:48 AM

#13137

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

.

Yes, not fulfilling our already decided obligations is a great strategy. I can just imagine BJ, cap in hand, triumphantly declaring that we’ll leave and we’ll pay nowt! I almost hope it happens just for the headlines.

12-15-2018 , 10:10 AM

#13138

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

still laughing at the prospect of the uk leaving without paying their dues. It’s funnier if you implant BJ or JRM actually saying it.

12-15-2018 , 10:12 AM

#13139

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Seriously please tell me this isn’t really the leavers preferred strategy?

if so it really highlights the point that they definitely hate them some brown people, so much so that they’ll not only cut off their noses but cut off their entire heads.

12-15-2018 , 10:15 AM

#13140

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

Hello biggest trading partner. Go **** yourself we ain’t paying for all those things we bought.

12-15-2018 , 10:26 AM

#13141

Fatal Checkraise

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 4,413

Can some mod just give simor the undertitle

to save him a bit of time?

12-15-2018 , 10:59 AM

#13142

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

I like your thinking, however, that’s gonna get a bit dark come April. I’m up for it if come March 29 it can be replaced with

12-15-2018 , 11:39 AM

#13143

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 66,083

Quote:

Originally Posted by joejoe1337

If Nato has primacy of Law or usurping of sovereign power, I'd want a ref on it.

12-15-2018 , 11:40 AM

#13144

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 66,083

Quote:

Originally Posted by SootedPowa

And lied about the nature of the legal advice. Blatantly lied.

12-15-2018 , 11:42 AM

#13145

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 66,083

PS I think we should pay what we agreed to pay, even though TM was idiotic for agreeing it with absolutely nothing else agreed.

However, to quote the EU's assorted mouthpieces that they call "presidents": 'nothing is agreed till everything is agreed'.

How come that doesn't apply here?

12-15-2018 , 11:58 AM

#13146

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

There’s a difference between future trade deals and paying for **** you’ve already bought.

12-15-2018 , 12:07 PM

#13147

SiMor29

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,985

They’re actually thinking about it. Too funny. We’re living within a parody.

12-15-2018 , 12:09 PM

#13148

LektorAJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7,873

^ Depends what it is though. To extend bacalaopeace's marriage metaphor, we wouldn't expect to continue paying the mortgage on a house we no longer live in, whereas we would expect to continue paying for a kid that was still our kid.

So if they want us out of the satellite thing then fine but they have to buy us out of it or we just keep what work we've done up to now. Already planed EU aid programmes should be paid for though.

Honest question:

Regarding NATO, if we weren't already a member from way back, then would we be ok about joining now without a referendum?

12-15-2018 , 12:33 PM

#13149

Hoopie1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 26,360

Quote:

Originally Posted by LektorAJ

We are out of the satellite thing because we are walking out on it. What they owe us or do not owe is dictated either by existing agreements on what happens when a member leaves or by negotiation.

12-16-2018 , 08:35 AM

#13150

jalfrezi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,913

May's cabinet appears to be forming into three distinct groups: Hard line Brexiters headed by the born-again Brexiter Hunt who favour what they call a "managed no deal"; a Norway Plus group spearhead by Rudd; and a referendum group including Liddington the Cabinet Secrtary.

None of the groups appears strong enough to command a majority or to impose its will on May.

Quote:

Failed by both its major parties, the biggest loser of all is Brexit-broken Britain. Our country is careening towards disaster. All of its political institutions know this. None of them seems capable of arresting it. They continue to play their games of charades as we lurch towards the abyss.

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