Brexit Referendum - Page 111 - Politics and Economics

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Brexit Referendum

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06-27-2016 , 10:26 AM

#2751

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,084

Quote:

Originally Posted by plaaynde

You know you have to do better than this.

I was just answering on a point of fact. Not many about but that is one.

06-27-2016 , 10:26 AM

#2752

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 65,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

If Boris becomes PM Jamie Oliver has vowed to leave the country.

I'm voting for Boris

06-27-2016 , 10:29 AM

#2753

S.K

Toffees >> Jellybeans

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 9,200

Lets say article 50 not invoked.. Boris climbs down... angry northern hordes begin to march on westminster axes and lager in hand, before one has a bright idea... To vote in UKIP and Farage in the next general election.. Now what?

06-27-2016 , 10:29 AM

#2754

dereds

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

Given that Germany has built a powerhouse economy on the back of codetermination whereby half or one third dependent on size of a businesses board of directors must comprise of workers representatives, normally Unions and that most of the EU's main economies are well to the left of the UK its possible to make a case that one of the main features of the EU was its ability to defend socialist democratic values in the face of the globalisation neo-liberal agenda vai allowing States which individually had all lost power to global capital to collectively bargain.

TTITP put a bit of dampener on that POV. No more.

Also now we have Brexit, I can see Boris and his Tory chums rushing to fist pump that we can now spend our way out of recession.

The left wing case for Brexit requires a left wing government. I'm not suggesting that the Tories will want to spend their way out of a recession but it's as valid a criticism of the EU as TTIP. I was strongly in favour of the UK remaining part of the EU but it's a neoliberal project.

06-27-2016 , 10:32 AM

#2755

pissychips

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,029

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Obiovusly you don't. London voted Remain because it's a vibrant multi-cultural capital where people don't feel so threatened by foreigners.

Stoke On Trent, however...

I can tell you for a fact that at least 2 fat women in their late 40's - mid 50's from Stoke On Trent voted to leave because they "hate Boris Johnson".

When I told them Boris Johnson was campaigning to leave they looked back towards the polling station door for 2 seconds, made a noise like "uuhm" and then got into their car and drove off.

06-27-2016 , 10:32 AM

#2756

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

I keep hearing that claim, but just dont see it, sure there are neoliberal strands in a multistranded construct, but the UKs main beef with the EU, from an ideological perspective was that it was always too pinko commy.

To be clear I am not saying that is individuals reasons for wanting out, but the establishments problem with it.

06-27-2016 , 10:34 AM

#2757

AnotherMakiavelli

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,451

UK has a very low unemployment rate:
http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...-eu-countries/

So where is the rage coming from? Obviously the foreigners did not harm the job market. I would rather tend to believe that they create more jobs for Brits.

06-27-2016 , 10:34 AM

#2758

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

If the EU was more neo-liberal, then Murdoch and the right wing tories would never have been so rabid about leaving it.

06-27-2016 , 10:34 AM

#2759

plaaynde

Poker Historian

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 20,085

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.K

To vote in UKIP and Farage in the next general election.. Now what?

If that's the alternative I'd rather see England is kicked out for good.

06-27-2016 , 10:35 AM

#2760

BAIDS

2013 FA Cup winner

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 32,645

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.K

farage couldn't even ****ing get himself elected in barking in 2015 or wherever it was he stood

nope its time for the katie hopkins party

06-27-2016 , 10:36 AM

#2761

Kukraprout

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11,231

The UK was pushing for the TTIP way harder than most of EU, that's why Brexit makes it killable. Brexit means that the EU will get less TTIP-like things, and the UK will get more of them.

The left wing case for Leave sounds stupid. But, to be fair, most cases for Leave sound stupid.

06-27-2016 , 10:37 AM

#2762

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,084

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.K

It means we have another chance to beat them. In the end it's a democracy so if they win a pro-leave majority in the house then nothing stops them.

You've put this bizarre notion in my head of us all mobilizing to defend Boris from the angry hoards. Rousing choruses of Eton Rifles ringing out.

06-27-2016 , 10:38 AM

#2763

dereds

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

I don't think that is the case. Apologies for just linking out here but I'm out the door shortly but I think Paul Mason's been excellent on this.

Leftwing case for Brexit (one day)

06-27-2016 , 10:39 AM

#2764

plaaynde

Poker Historian

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 20,085

Quote:

Originally Posted by diebitter

I'm voting for Boris

We already know you are loving his pair of golden balls.

06-27-2016 , 10:39 AM

#2765

AnotherMakiavelli

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,451

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukraprout

UK GDP is around 17.5% of the EUs total GDP. So even if Great Britain leaves, the EU market is still a huge market. It will have no effect on the TTIP negotiations imo.

06-27-2016 , 10:41 AM

#2766

dereds

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukraprout

What have you heard of the left wing case for leaving the EU? Because it may still sound stupid but I haven't really heard it being made, the article I linked above notwithstanding.

06-27-2016 , 10:42 AM

#2767

plaaynde

Poker Historian

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 20,085

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

What have you heard of the left wing case for leaving the EU? Because it may still sound stupid but I haven't really heard it being made, the article I linked above notwithstanding.

Who would state what the left wing wants?

06-27-2016 , 10:43 AM

#2768

jeccross

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,807

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherMakiaveli

People like to blame foreigners for their own situation.

06-27-2016 , 10:44 AM

#2769

plaaynde

Poker Historian

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 20,085

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

Mason

Sorry, but my mind drifts a bit.

06-27-2016 , 10:46 AM

#2770

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukraprout

Yea it was stupid LDO, but the people making it have in my experience been open minded about it.

06-27-2016 , 10:49 AM

#2771

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

I don't think that is the case. Apologies for just linking out here but I'm out the door shortly but I think Paul Mason's been excellent on this.

Leftwing case for Brexit (one day)

That article seems to contradict itself and affirm my point at the same time.

Boris and co want to leave Neo liberal EU to make UK Neo Liberal.

06-27-2016 , 10:49 AM

#2772

plaaynde

Poker Historian

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 20,085

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukraprout

The left wing case for Leave sounds stupid. But, to be fair, most cases for Leave sound stupid.

Educate me: I'd like to hear a good one. You only said 'most' not 'all'

Before you do it I will see Brexit as top notch of human stupidity.

06-27-2016 , 10:51 AM

#2773

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Unemployment is low, but we should not the headline rate fool us.

We are talking about ****tier more insecure jobs and wage growth has been very low over the last 8 years, even negative at some points.

06-27-2016 , 10:51 AM

#2774

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,084

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukraprout

Might have made a difference if instead of the fear and 'back of the queue' approach, the message from the remain camp and being reinforced by Obama was how influential and important the UK was within the EU.

06-27-2016 , 10:53 AM

#2775

dereds

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

That article seems to contradict itself and affirm my point at the same time.

Boris and co want to leave Neo liberal EU to make UK Neo Liberal.

There are leftist neoliberals, that was the Blairite faction of the Labour party, leftist neoliberals demand concessions on social justice, that's the price of having the lefts support, outside of the EU the Tories can continue their neoliberal agenda without any such concessions. Paul Mason is pretty smart if someone pretty smart makes a claim I think is obviously wrong or contradictory it's probably me.

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