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Basic Income for every citizen Basic Income for every citizen

04-20-2015 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
The Econ 101 stuff bears repeating because adherence to most anti-poverty legislation requires discarding basic economic principles.

My suggestion would be for states to reduce or remove some of the barriers for entry into entrepreneurship and into the job market. That would be a start. The wealthiest nations on earth also happen to be the hardest nations on earth to start a business. When it takes at least a million dollars to start even the smallest of businesses due to all of the red tape and federal hoops one must jump through, only the well-to-do will ever be able to be entrepreneurs.
I have started 3 successful small business so far in my life. A million dollars is so LOL I don't even know where to begin. Anybody who can't figure out "all of the red tape and federal hoops one must jump through" isn't going to last very long anyway as a small business owner. It's not that hard to comply with the law. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:
Certification for professional labor should be loosened significantly. In the U.S. there are currently loads of people with degrees in the medical field who cannot practice their trade because they either can't afford to take the license exam or can't pass it due to test anxiety or whatever reason. Strict requirements for licensure guarantee that there will be a surplus of work to do and a shortage of people to do that work. This means higher prices for everyone and higher unemployment for people in that field. The regulations provide no value in this area, since employers are completely capable of bearing the liability for the people they hire in the absence of said regulations.
I am also licensed to practice my profession, and again you have no idea what you're talking about. I can assure you from first hand experience that unlicensed workers can be a terrifying thing. Licensure is a huge net benefit to society in pretty much every field where it is required.

Quote:
In America, many of the poor are poor indirectly due to flaws in the legal system. The drug war perpetuates poverty by handing down felony convictions to a significant percentage of the poor population, ensuring that they never will have a career, and making it pretty likely that their children will struggle as well. Legalizing recreational drugs would end this, not to mention opening up the opportunity for millions of quality jobs. It would also probably reduce the number of policeman and correctional officers jobs but hey, that's another broken window fallacy.
Great, we agree that the drug war is a disaster. But absolutely none of what you wrote addresses how we go about helping people who do not have money for the necessities of life.
04-20-2015 , 10:32 AM
I agree with zikzak, it doesn't take a million $ to start a biz unless of course you are talking about a franchise. It cost me only the price to incorporate and the state fee to start mine. It was pre computer drafting. Now it would take $60k to start just to purchase a computer and the necessary software to compete with others, the sprinkler software alone costs $20k, the 60k might be a little on the high side.
04-20-2015 , 10:35 AM
Are you talking about trade-specific software? Because an Autocad license only costs a couple grand (even less for some versions), and you don't even need to pay that if you use one of the many capable open source CAD packages.
04-20-2015 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I am also licensed to practice my profession, and again you have no idea what you're talking about. I can assure you from first hand experience that unlicensed workers can be a terrifying thing. Licensure is a huge net benefit to society in pretty much every field where it is required.
If you as an employer were capable of passing on under-qualified hires, then why was it necessary for the state to intervene? You had the situation under control.

They're horrific at policing anything, as the completely incompetent police forces demonstrate to us on the news on a daily basis with every unarmed black guy that gets gunned down. Why would they be any more competent at ensuring that professionals don't lack qualification to do professional work? Why would they be any more effective at ensuring that new drugs are safe and effective? Or that restaurants keep basic health standards? Or that bars don't over-serve alcohol?

There's nothing to stop watchdog organizations from emerging in the private sector, providing that consumers value what they offer. And again, businesses will always be financially liable for the people they hurt, with or without the government's watchful eye.
04-20-2015 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Are you talking about trade-specific software? Because an Autocad license only costs a couple grand (even less for some versions), and you don't even need to pay that if you use one of the many capable open source CAD packages.
You need the full version of AutoCad, Navis, Revit and sprinkler specific software. Allot depends on the size and scope of work you are looking to do.
04-20-2015 , 10:42 AM
Sorry Renton, you aren't qualified to offer an opinion on small business ownership or professional licensure. You don't know what you're talking about. You're parroting third-hand ideology that has nothing to do with the real world.
04-20-2015 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raradevils
You need the full version of AutoCad, Navis, Revit and sprinkler specific software. Allot depends on the size and scope of work you are looking to do.
Nobody has ever managed to convince me that BIM is actually useful in the real world for 99.99% of its intended applications, but I'll defer to your trade expertise here. $60k still seems a bit on the high side, though.
04-20-2015 , 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I have started 3 successful small business so far in my life. A million dollars is so LOL I don't even know where to begin. Anybody who can't figure out "all of the red tape and federal hoops one must jump through" isn't going to last very long anyway as a small business owner. It's not that hard to comply with the law. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Buy a McDonalds franchise. Pay your employees $15/hr. How long would you be able to stay in business?
04-20-2015 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neg3sd
Buy a McDonalds franchise. Pay your employees $15/hr. How long would you be able to stay in business?
Considering the ROI for a McDonalds franchise, I'd guess quite a long time.
04-20-2015 , 11:47 AM
15$ an hour isn't going to bankrupt America.

Just raise Big Mac prices by 35 cents.
04-20-2015 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Nobody has ever managed to convince me that BIM is actually useful in the real world for 99.99% of its intended applications, but I'll defer to your trade expertise here. $60k still seems a bit on the high side, though.
BIM, works only if all trades us it. If one draws in it, clears the space then just runs where ever they want in the field it's a waste of time.

The $60k also includes a high end computer with 2 30 inch monitors.
04-20-2015 , 11:50 AM
That productivity graph pretty much tells us the future isn't going to be a nice place for low skilled workers made obsolete by technology.
04-20-2015 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
If you as an employer were capable of passing on under-qualified hires, then why was it necessary for the state to intervene? You had the situation under control.

They're horrific at policing anything, as the completely incompetent police forces demonstrate to us on the news on a daily basis with every unarmed black guy that gets gunned down. Why would they be any more competent at ensuring that professionals don't lack qualification to do professional work? Why would they be any more effective at ensuring that new drugs are safe and effective? Or that restaurants keep basic health standards? Or that bars don't over-serve alcohol?

There's nothing to stop watchdog organizations from emerging in the private sector, providing that consumers value what they offer. And again, businesses will always be financially liable for the people they hurt, with or without the government's watchful eye.
"The police shooting a black person is why we don't need the USDA"
04-20-2015 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Gee whiz, that sounds super easy. I wonder why there are still so many people perpetually stuck in a cycle of poverty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogallalabob
Who cares if a someone gives $1 million to a private organization to give his a kid a advantage? Are you that jealous of the upper class?
.
04-20-2015 , 08:13 PM
A few communities are raising the MW to $15/hr. In 2 or 3 years we will all see if these communities will look like Russia with empty store fronts.
Lifetime rates make more sense. No incentive to not work. Only large corporations given monopolies will be burdened.
04-20-2015 , 09:52 PM
Well rent increases and cost of living increases go up every year.

15 years ago I was working summer jobs making 10$ an hr.

15 years ago the bus used to cost me a buck. Today it costs 3$. Minimum wage didn't go up 3 times.

America won't look like Russia. If walmart level crap isn't worth selling anymore good riddance.

Obviously you can't raise MW excessively, there has to be a balance.
04-20-2015 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tien
Well rent increases and cost of living increases go up every year.

15 years ago I was working summer jobs making 10$ an hr.

15 years ago the bus used to cost me a buck. Today it costs 3$. Minimum wage didn't go up 3 times.

America won't look like Russia. If walmart level crap isn't worth selling anymore good riddance.

Obviously you can't raise MW excessively, there has to be a balance.
The lowest I have ever been paid was as a 15 year old dishwasher. I made a little over $10/hr in 2015 dollars, adjusted for inflation.

High school student dishwashers made more money in the 80's than the current wage of a McDonald's shift manager.
04-20-2015 , 10:44 PM
I made £4 a day in ~1980.

Thanks to a very enlightened public transport policy (thanks Ken) my 1hr each way commute cost 20p
04-20-2015 , 10:52 PM
A day? Were you a serf?
04-20-2015 , 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
A day? Were you a serf?
Yes a day. I was a messenger boy for a firm of accountants. It seemed like a lot of money at the time but I had no expenses and was only ~15.
04-20-2015 , 11:04 PM
Damn. Thanks, Maggie.
04-20-2015 , 11:07 PM
Might be worth keeping an eye on Finland?

Quote:
The Centre Party, a party which is in support of Basic Income, will become the largest party in the Finnish parliament, after winning yesterday’s election.

They received 21% of the vote with 99% of votes counted. Other Basic Income-supporting parties, the Green League and the Left Alliance were on 8% and 7% respectively. This is a big gain for both the Centre Party and the Green League but is a reduction in support for the Left Alliance. The second and third biggest parties respectively were the conservative NCP party and the populist True Finns. As a result, the Centre Party is predicted to form a ruling coalition with these two parties.

While the Centre Party has come out in support of Basic Income, it is not certain where these other two parties lie on the issue and whether we would see some movement on Basic Income with these parties in government. The leader of the NCP and former prime minister, Alexander Stubb has expressed his support for Basic Income in parliament, however, the policy is not mentioned in his party’s manifesto. The True Finns have made no statements about the policy.
04-20-2015 , 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Damn. Thanks, Maggie.
Can't blame Maggie I don't think, she was still too fresh. She did later destroy the subsidised fares which was a very bad move.

It's probably influence me into being a strong believer in providing public services cheap to everybody. So much more effective than trying to make sure disadvantaged people have enough money although the UBI idea is very appealing. (Not suggesting I was disadvantaged)
04-21-2015 , 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tien
Well rent increases and cost of living increases go up every year.

15 years ago I was working summer jobs making 10$ an hr.

15 years ago the bus used to cost me a buck. Today it costs 3$. Minimum wage didn't go up 3 times.

America won't look like Russia. If walmart level crap isn't worth selling anymore good riddance.

Obviously you can't raise MW excessively, there has to be a balance.
Let's just raise it to $100/hour then. Why not? Everyone can be rich.

<---- settles smugly into his easy chair knowing an undefensible internet burn has been delivered.

$100/HR LIKE CRANE TECHNIQUE - IF DONE PROPERLY - CANNOT DEFEND
04-21-2015 , 06:19 AM
Aren't they going to raise the wages once they find out nobody/not enough people want to work for that wage anymore ?

      
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