Barack Obama 2012 Containment Thread - Page 105 - Politics and Economics

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Barack Obama 2012 Containment Thread

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03-31-2012 , 09:28 PM

#2601

actionzip54

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Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

You clearly dont understand the process of how paying back debt works.

Here is the thing you are missing, you dont need to repay it in one single payment.

No **** Sherlock. I am saying it would take a massive tax hike across the board on EVERYONE and some serious spending cuts to even get back on track.

The proposed changes are a total joke if you look at the big picture.

03-31-2012 , 09:30 PM

#2602

actionzip54

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Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

The point of taxing the rich, which is only one part of Obama's plan, and guess what, he doesn't even support that big of a tax hike on the rich, is to get them to pay their fair share of services that overwhelmingly favor them in implementation.

The bigger issue, imo, is ending tax loopholes for the rich and subsidies for huge corporations that are pulling in record profits. Guess which party is for that and which is against it?

Lol, I'm not even a republican nerd. My point is Obama's plan doesn't do anything. Why raise taxes on the rich, when it's like adding a penny to a $100 dollar tab? It doesn't make any sense unless it's to score political points.

03-31-2012 , 09:31 PM

#2603

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by actionzip54

No **** Sherlock. I am saying it would take a massive tax hike across the board on EVERYONE and some serious spending cuts to even get back on track.

So....don't even bother trying?

By the way you are right about spending cuts, guess what we spend the most money on. A ginormous military force that we are constantly using to wage wars for profit to benefit those swell rich people at Halliburton, Blackwater, and Lockheed Martin!

Quote:

The proposed changes are a total joke if you look at the big picture.

I like to think I have an open mind. What is your proposal?

03-31-2012 , 09:33 PM

#2604

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by actionzip54

I've already been over this, but yeah, it's because

the rich benefit overwhelmingly more from services provided by government $$ such as the military, transportation infrastructure, and the lobbying system

It's called, you know, fairness.

03-31-2012 , 09:33 PM

#2605

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by actionzip54

You still dont get it. Ill try again, debt can be repaid over a very long time.

The only number America needs to worry about in the finances is the deficit which can be cut to a surplus letting the Bush cuts expire, lowering unemployment to the usual 5%, cutting back on defence spending as little as 25% iirc and the planned withdrawal of Afghanistan. Of course ideally you will cut more off defence given how much America spends but its just wrong to think America is in a bad spot or needs to do anything crazy like making serious spending cuts and tax hikes which would decimate the economy.

03-31-2012 , 09:34 PM

#2606

einbert

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I am a nerd, I certainly won't argue that point with you. Personally I kind of enjoy being a nerd though, the cool kids don't have an amazing candy named after them.

03-31-2012 , 09:35 PM

#2607

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by actionzip54

Good job that:

1, no one is talking about just doing that
2, a penny is a penny

03-31-2012 , 09:37 PM

#2608

actionzip54

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Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Again I'm not a Republican and I hate any and all war. IMO we should close down 95% of our bases worldwide. Our wars in the middle east are both a waste of lives and resources.

Quote:

I like to think I have an open mind. What is your proposal?

Massive cuts to budget, including ending the wars and our military industrial complex, ending useless depts., and dramatically changing social security medicare etc., AND a tax hike.

03-31-2012 , 09:39 PM

#2609

actionzip54

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Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Taxes, especially a progressive rate, are inherently unfair imo.

We can agree to disagree though

03-31-2012 , 09:40 PM

#2610

einbert

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I totally agree with you on ending the wars, they are just a way to funnel money to the rich.

Social Security and Medicare do a great amount of good as is, but I won't argue that they couldn't be improved. I think that's only going to be a drop in the bucket compared to the cuts in defense you are talking about though.

03-31-2012 , 09:41 PM

#2611

Low Key

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Quote:

Originally Posted by actionzip54

Massive cuts to budget, including ending the wars and our military industrial complex, ending useless depts., and dramatically changing social security medicare etc., AND a tax hike.

lol

those things might work in 'the real world', but that, sir, is not where our political discourse takes place

03-31-2012 , 09:41 PM

#2612

actionzip54

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Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

Of course it can be repaid if it's a manageable amount of debt. The problem is our debt is teetering on the point of unmanageable. People with tons of debt would never file for bankruptcy if it was, "lol, no biggie. I'll just pay it back in a few".

03-31-2012 , 09:43 PM

#2613

actionzip54

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

lol

those things might work in 'the real world', but that, sir, is not where our political discourse takes place

It doesn't matter if you think that's dumb because it can't happen in the "real world". It will happen sooner than later. I'd rather it not be forced by the market.

03-31-2012 , 09:45 PM

#2614

actionzip54

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Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

Unfortunately, it's not. I wouldn't plan on ever receiving much of anything from either of those programs if you're young.

03-31-2012 , 10:02 PM

#2615

snagglepuss

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einbert,

how do you feel about reducing spending?

and ending subsidies and creating a level playing field? hey im on bored with that. and i think ron paul might agree with you there.

03-31-2012 , 10:39 PM

#2616

einbert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by snagglepuss

einbert,

how do you feel about reducing spending?

and ending subsidies and creating a level playing field? hey im on bored with that. and i think ron paul might agree with you there.

Reducing spending can be great, especially military spending that is giving almost no benefit to 95% of the population.

I agree with Ron Paul on a lot of issues too, but I am not sure the free market solves everything. I think we need to retain protections for employees and consumers, and I'm afraid libertarianism punishes the 99% even moreso than the current system.

03-31-2012 , 10:58 PM

#2617

[Phill]

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Lol, Americas debt isnt close to unmanageable. Its barely above 100% GDP isnt it?

03-31-2012 , 11:14 PM

#2618

snagglepuss

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paying interest on debt is a good use of american capital

03-31-2012 , 11:20 PM

#2619

[Phill]

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Time for a constitutional amendment in your opinion?

03-31-2012 , 11:30 PM

#2620

krmont22

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100% Debt to GDP now considered manageable. LOL

03-31-2012 , 11:35 PM

#2621

snagglepuss

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kermont,

don't you know debt can be paid over very long periods of time? 900% debt to gdp is a walk in the park.

03-31-2012 , 11:45 PM

#2622

[Phill]

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snaggle clearly hoping America can run a purely strawman based economy.

03-31-2012 , 11:54 PM

#2623

seattlelou

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krmont22

100% Debt to GDP now considered manageable. LOL

I think 100 percent debt to GDP is manageable but we as a country haven't shown the will to manage it. We will fix but I hope we don't wait for the market to impose austerity and we do it before it comes to that.

03-31-2012 , 11:58 PM

#2624

krmont22

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If we balanced the budget next year, I would agree we could manage it. Unfortunately, we are on track for 150% by the end of Obama's next term.

04-01-2012 , 12:07 AM

#2625

seattlelou

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Quote:

Originally Posted by krmont22

If we balanced the budget next year, I would agree we could manage it. Unfortunately, we are on track for 150% by the end of Obama's next term.

Nobody really knows at what level the tipping point is, but I doubt we can make it to 200 percent debt to GDP with our current account balance. It is going to be a challenge for sure.

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