So yiu think someone should be held criminally liable if their gun is used in a crime?

That's far too broad of a statement.

If someone through negligence of reasonable precautions allowed someone access to a firearm used in a crime, sure.

But reasonableness should apply.

The fact that when Adam Lanza's brother was initially called the killer, dozens of aquaintences knew the report was wrong and it was Adam leads me to the conclusion this woman was grossly negligent.

Her son was a freak and a weird dude. Not sure how that helps you know that she's criminally negligent. And not sure how labeling people as criminally negligent after the fact stops people from getting shot in a rampage. Obviously Adam didn't give a **** about how his actions would affect his mom.

Why not just "unless it was stolen..."

If it could be magically dealt with would you want it to?

I would. May as well start somewhere. Ban/recall all automatic weapons, stop selling guns, put a buyback program in place for other guns. You'll obv not get them all, maybe only 20% but it's a start.

Obv have carve outs for hunters.

Target shooters can find another hobby.

Something might be hard so don't try. Good life lesson.

Comparisons to other forms of death is also stupid.

Those other forms are mostly self-inflicted. Being murdered because someone has a device that can easily kill people with the squeeze of a finger can be easily stopped.

Because you're attempting to back door your way into something you can't get the legislative way, which is to criminalize gun sales.

On a serious note I hope you'll realize at some point I've been arguing gun rights for over 15 years, you're not the first guy I've ever argued with.

Now, if I'm wrong and the scenario you're envisioning doesn't have anything to do with criminalizing sales or negligence, I'm open to hear it.

What? There can only be one owner of a gun...

Well, if people start going to jail for failing to protect their firearms, maybe they'll protect their firearms.

That's my line of thinking.

That'd be awesome. More non-violent people in jail. Fill 'em up.

Even if her **** was secured, under the current laws what's there to stop lanza himself from buying the weapons?

Didn't the batman shooter buy all his stuff? And the columbine nut jobs?

Well, theoretically her getting shot in the face should have the same effect. Hell, there might be real world people re-evaluating how crazy their kids are and locking up or selling their guns.

True.

As long as you're not talking about this insane Bloomberg/M2B scheme where selling a gun to someone who later used it in a crime makes you liable, I'm on board.

Except I'm not, because I'm not willing to release liability on EVERYONE who has guns "stolen".

For instance, to steal my guns, you'd need a very powerful forklift, a large heavy duty work truck, and some dynamite.

Clearly I've taken reasonable (and beyond) precautions to protect my guns. I'm willing to promote criminal charges if some thug steals your pistol because you left it on the passenger seat of your car with the door unlocked.

There were reports that Lanza attempted to purchase a rifle at Dicks Sporting Goods and was denied three days prior to the shooting.

The batman guy, IDK, IIRC I think he did. Columbine, hell no. Those kids violated 19 Federal or State gun statutes in attempting to obtain the guns they used.

Columbine kids: couldn't buy guns cuz they were on probation. Friends bought the guns
Batman guy: Don't know, he could probably buy
Lanza: stole mom's guns
Virginia Tech guy: bought his guns even though he was known crazy. This is because a judge determined he could be treated as an outpatient and not an inpatient. The Virginia law was changed after that.

I hope so.

And it's not just kids. Spouses, whomever.

It's like alcohol. If you discover your spouse is an alcoholic, you probably shouldn't have it in the house.

Same with guns and mental instability.

the more guns there are the least crime there is FACT
the more gun restrictions there are the more crime rises FACT

if you still don't understand that then your ****ing stupid

irony.jpg

Why are there less gun deaths in every other country? Especially mass killings.

You mean like in Columbine, where they fired at the armed guard first, wounded him, then went on to kill the kids?

People don't select targets for rampages based on who might be there to stop them. They mainly base it on who they want to kill. A truly random setting for the shooter, somewhere they don't frequent or is not significant to them is unquestionably rare. For schools, usually they are chosen because the student is relentlessly bullied and/or has mental issues. Want to stop school shootings? Preventing bullying and seeing which kids are at risk mentally is 10000x better then an armed guard. Also could stop a few dozen of suicides a year through outreach as well.

Why are there less gun deaths on Mars? It must be because of their policies.

I'd love to get into this argument but i have to get into my gun and drive off to my buddy's for a few guns. They're very tasty with tonic.

BTW, US violent crime is defined very differently from the UK's, which includes stuff barely more than looking at someone funny.

I don't necessarily think criminal charges would be necessary. I think gun manufacturers would be more responsive to monetary penalties, so civil actions could be just as effective.

What the bold is is basically a negligence standard, which I think would be fine. As it stands gun manufacturers can't be held responsible for the actions of third parties because they have no duty(I believe). I think this could be changed by statue to give them a little skin in the game and they will start coming up with all sorts of ideas on how to prevent their weapons from being used for bad purposes.

I realize there are a lot of things wrong with this idea, so I'm not going to defend it too fiercely. I do believe, however, that our best chance of effectively reducing gun violence/crime while still keeping robust 2A rights is by getting gun manufacturers to start proactively thinking of solutions outside the standard "Buy more guns!" NRA propeganda.

Well there are background checks and **** right