Tbf, a ton of my feminist jewish friends are also anti-zionist and anti-religion as well, so take that as you will

(I think it has something to do with Judaism being an extremely sexist religion or something to that effect.., just like all the other religions from that time)

i absolutely didn't and wouldn't even before CN's posts which were enlightening, but, you know, kinda went off the rails at the end

i apologize for slandering your good name

Is there a religion that doesn't restrict women more than men?

I mean there are about 4,200 religions in the world. I'm sure one that I'm not aware of does.

Blainetology.

Yeah, they’ve never brought it up because there’s no ****ing equivalence. Again, ASK THEM. Ask them if they think there is equivalence between sexism and the holocaust.

from what i've read about history there has been systematic dehumanization and rape of women for thousands of years, and the current american conservative movement seems to be trying to preserve that history as part of society.

i'm against that, we're all against that, even awval is probably against that (but he'll vote for it if he's offered enough money)

I will definitely ask them who is more of problem in their daily lives- holocaust deniers or sexists

(I already know the answer)

But they will think the question is weird because I'm almost positive none of them have ever had to defend against the assertion that holocaust denialism is >/< sexism...

What exactly is your point here btw?

Lets say I concede everything, that those niche groups are "worse". How does that make sexist posts okay FOR ME?

CN is free to stay, and I was fine with her posting until she decided to equivocate ****ing holocaust denial with sexism. I’m sorry but that is a bridge too far.

walk it back

It kinda seems like you're just mad at me and will point at anything now.

Why should I not personally attack sexists, which affects me personally?

You've obviously made the rules that attacking x.y.z groups is allowed- if the mentality is that personal attacks are deserved in those instance, then why are they not deserved when they are sexist comments and I am affected by them personally.

See, now you’re strawmanning. That wasn’t what you posted. You pointed out that posters who are sexist should be in the same category as posters who are holocaust deniers. I indicated to you that there was no equivalence between holocaust deniers and sexists, and you indicated that, actually, sexism was actually far worse. I don’t doubt for a second that sexism affects Jewish women more in their day to day lives than antisemitism does. That doesn’t change the fact that sexism and the holocaust are not equivalent and the systemic attempted extermination of an entire people was way worse. Whatever argument you are going to make I can state with 100 percent confidence that men will never try to systematically exterminate all women. On the other hand, that attempt has already been made on Jewish people, and could easily happen again. The two are just not equivalent.

It makes your posting ****ing terrible regardless. The assertion that "someone said something sexist thus every insane thing I say in response is good" is bull****.

Its obviously easier for me to say nothing and just let the sexists post past. I expected a lot of attacks, but I mean... I'M not the one who started asserting which is worse than what. It feels a lot like you've moved the goalposts in this discussion and it isn't fair.

Jman, do you want me to just leave? Tell me what you want. Holocaust denialism and sandy hook trutherism had nothing to do with this convo other than me pointing out that sexism hits home to me personally. Aren't you asking me to have empathy for what hits home to you? What are you asking of me? You're literally mocking my fears while saying I should take yours seriously.

False dichotomy.

You did, effectively, by stating they were equivalent. This is a form of comparison the same as stating one is worse.

So move them back.

I've known crossnerd for years from pog. She's one of the smartest posters on the site afaict. Unlike many other posters she has a lot of facts and experience backing her opinions. I read her posts and learn from them.

I think its fine for me to admit you guys are breaking me a bit emotionally. I'll be back later.

You got a vast majority of agreement from the forum, including a new/clarification of the rules. Not sure what else you wanted, but that clearly wasn't enough for you.

So to be clear, the no personal attack rule was made by TPTB on threat of shutting down the forum because we were all being too mean to racists and white supremacists and (gasp) sexists. It was an absolute rule at first and is probably still what TPTB want as far as I know. I got a little cheeky during the sandy hook thing, ironically you were the freaking inspiration for the rule change, and added holocaust deniers and sandy hook truthers as an exception, because that (at least holocaust deniers) is an evil so extreme that I didn’t think I could possibly catch flack for putting that exception in, and because **** Sandy Hook Truthers. There is no equivalence between the holocaust and *nearly* anything else in human history, except for a few other mass attempted exterminations of certain peoples (the Armenians, Rwanda, etc.)

To say nothing? You got an almost immediate rules change in the forum! Like 90 percent of the forum, including me, agreed with you. You were doing great until you decided to triple down on a really stupid and frankly borderline antisemitic false dichotomy, for no apparent reason other than you weren’ thappy with the two separate places in the sticky that I inserted a “no sexism” rule.

Is this like a BruceZ situation? Like we make fun of the school shooting truther ******* over in POG and they retaliate by sending their AIDS over here?

I have no desire for you to leave. I think you are a fresh voice and a worthwhile different perspective. I wish you would take yes for an answer, stop attacking people who are agreeing with you, learn to take a win, and finally take a step back and realize that just like you found some of the stuff in here hurtful as a woman, I find the marginalization of the attempted extermination of my people hurtful.

You may not be aware that the owner of this site threatened to shut down the Politics Forum if the volume and vitriol of personal attacks does not significantly decrease going forward. (I will not mention what many people think was the real reason for the threat.)

Perhaps not surprisingly those words have put a chill on the entire forum, with some posters choosing to leave the site and/or curtail their participation in the forum.

So in this specific time and place, it may be understandable that forum regulars (and mods) are not really looking for reasons, valid though they may be, to savagely attack other posters.

Generally speaking, as a community we are looking to curtail personal attacks rather than encourage them. This is why, just like every other forum on 2+2, it is strongly encouraged that people report posts that they find objectionable/inappropriate rather than "engage" in a long series of attacky posts.

That was a helluva ride.