Kind of like donating to charity is fiscally identical to being mugged at knife point.

Again, for simple PR reasons that Orwell understood very well, the capitalist class and their political servants aren't gonna blatantly increase taxes on the general population (when they have better PR options at their disposal) while at the same time they decrease taxes on themselves. Anyone who doesn't understand this dynamic is politically ignorant to a degree that renders them utterly useless in this type of discussion.

The point is that "fiscally identical" is a meaningless term. It's your own attempt at Orwellian twisting of words.

Riiiiiiiight.

Ok how bout I dumb it down for you a bit: The political servants of the capitalist masters are transferring money from the general population into the hands OF their capitalist masters. Is that easier for you to understand?

I understand what you're trying to say, but that still doesn't mean that a wage freeze = a tax increase.

But lets not let facts get in the way of your soapbox rhetoric...

Lol, the vicious class war that the capitalist class has always been executing on the general population is "my soapbox rhetoric". GMAFB.

The point is, if we're not willing to recognize what that wage freeze is all about, if we're not willing to reach that modicum of honesty necessary to point out that it's effectively a tax, then we really have no hope. If we're that stupid then we deserve to be ruled.

Again, the number of people this affects is less than 1% of the U.S. population, so your "general population" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Why can't you discuss the actual issue without resorting to the rhetoric?

The wage freeze was just one example out of countless over the last century. What we're talking about in this thread is the clear attack by the capitalist class on the Michigan population. Watch the video. And this attack has many analogues around the country and the world at this very moment, and it's part of a more general attack by the capitalist class that is centuries old.

Well if Maddow says it, it must be true. I'm sure she never bends, omits, or distorts the truth...

I'll stand by the point that "not giving you moar free ponies" =/= "tax increase". You don't agree, blah blah...class warfare...blah blah chomsky says...blah blah blah

I Are you kidding me? I don't give a **** about Maddow. I don't care who the source of the facts are. All she's doing is restating the facts that are accessible to everyone. Everything she said is perfectly consistent with the article in the OP. That is what's happening. Those are the facts. So plz leave this thread and stfu.

Look, I know youre an ACist, so I know that all you really care about is that all the "free ponies" to go to the capitalist class, i.e. the propertied despots you so uncritically worship. I know what kind of sick person you really are: Someone who wants a special dictatorial class to own the means of life while everyone else faces the humiliating choice of renting themselves to your private dictatorships or starving to death. A world only a person like this could want:



So plz gtfo out of this thread. There's plenty of other threads in the future where I'll spend plenty of time owning all you little eichmanns.

It's sad you had to resort to Godwins law to concede an argument, but I guess it's better than nothing.

BCPVP - I just gave you $1,000,000. What, you didn't get it? Oh, by giving you $1,000,000, I mean I decided to take $1,000,000 from you and then gave it back.

Go on, keep nitting up this thread. Nothing you can say will change the reality that has been explained in this forum ad nauseam and summed up perfectly by one of the protesters in Lansing: "It's not about the budget. It's about our governor taking our money and giving it to big business."

I'm going to give myself a A- in civics here. I got the structure, and idea of delegation to the federation basically right.

I knew that VA had all the city-counties. The others are San Francisco and IIRC Indianapolis and Jacksonville.

Not WTF, that was what I was curious about. I know that the thirteen originals, Texas and Vermont have grandfather rights. But I live in a Art 4, Sect 3, Claus 1 State. And yes, I just looked that up.

For Civics, things are a lot simpler here. Mexican civil law ended with the US occupation. California went straight to statehood. So the California Constitution was the restoration of civil law. A clean slate. The Pueblos were reestablished, and the counties and San Francisco were mandated. The rest is statute law.

Like I said, I knew that there are grandfather rights. But I never knew that some extended all the way to the level of sovereign immunity. Thank you for the info sir!

But he's not taking their money. He's just not giving them other peoples.