They both look old both even then Bernie looks like their grandpa.

Blame back people

Oh, please... I get the bias but to say Hil and Trump look the same health wise is unsupportable.

Hil can't go 3 speeches without a coughing jag and has a rather non-stressful campaign schedule and needs to wear prism lenses due to her nebulous brain injury a few years back.

The mantra here for years has been "of course blacks never vote "R"... they always vote their self interest, like everybody else.

Well... aren't Sanders policies closer to the majority black interest than Hil's and wasn't Sanders a jailed civil rights advocate while Hil was a Goldwater supporter?

Bernie can't buy a black vote.... why?

We covered this at length in the Hillary/Bernie threads but it basically comes down to:

1. Black people exist all across the geographic and economic spectrum in this country. Too often we look at the "black voting block" and think just inner city blacks suffering in poverty, but in reality there are way more middle and upper class black people in this country who have their own economic interests that don't necessarily align with Bernie's views

2. The Clintons have spent upwards of 3 decades making meaningful relationships with the black community and listening to black people and the issues they are dealing with. You can point to things in the past that seem counterproductive to this effort (Superpredator Bill) but it's easy to criticize that in hindsight but at the time that bill was a drastic measure viewed as needed by many both in and out of the black community to stem a huge uptick in violence in urban areas. Bernie Sanders had almost zero visibility to any black voters at the start of this process and didn't really make big attempts to reach out to the black community until the southern states where the Dem base is largely African American had already voted. Bernie's economic policies may benefit black people more than other demographics on a per capita basis, but he has never had to pitch that to the black community before as a Senator from a state that is 97% White.

You should watch that entire interview, because Axelrod absolutely clowns steward later on. Steward starts in on this rant about bureaucracy and how terrible it is that Obama had to actually deal with a legislature and tries to cut on Axe for just shrugging and accepting the reality that bureaucracy exists. Not once does Steward stop and think about what he's saying, how he's basically wishing that Obama were an autocrat, and what the ramifications of that would be if TRUMP managed to win.

Thou shalt not blame sounds very good on paper but it is a oversimplification of life. Dids wanted to make a very general point about blaming but its an overgeneralization. It works good in the office, but not in the rest of life.


We have institutionalized blaming in our courts. Probably every society on earth has this. A person offends someone and we point our finger at him in court before we lock him up for being a smock. We say that our laws are what they are and if you break them you are an idiot and shall receive punishment.


Sometimes persons needs to be confronted with their actions and they need to change, and sometimes its the system that needs to be changed. Its not so easy as to say that the system is what needs to be changed every time. Its not a one way street.

Of course the courts is only one example, in daily life you will experience thousands of examples.

I see that Hillary's obviously terrible health is becoming another one of those "facts" that is true for right wingers without elaboration but the rest of us can't see.

Serious brain injury? exposed the secrets of the US State department to every interested party in the world?

The rightwingers in this forum never fail to make themselves look foolish.

Stupid black people! Why can't they be as smart as you?

Did you forget to take your meds man?

Well when the other candidate is the HEALTHIEST in the history of Presidential candidates then obviously Hillary's health looks terrible in comparison.


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Nobody is as healthy as Trump. He has terrific health, let me tell you. And the best doctors. I've never seen such strong genes.

Hey depending on who her VP choice is it might give people a reason to vote for her.

"Hillary: When she dies XXXX will be President"

Hillary is about the same age as Trump. And Hillary and Trump both dye their hair and probably both wear a lot of make up. Trump is also balding, but has a crazy comb over. Bernie is just a few years older.

I was just looking at pictures in google to see what I thought. Came across this picture:



And it has made my day. From the hair, to the bloat, to the tiny tiny hands.

But for real, they've both had work done (Hilary and Trump) but Hilary definitely looks better than Trump.

(any picture featuring his hands is the best)

Trump has great hair for 70.

Both Trump and Clinton have had work done and wear lots of makeup. I mean they are running for President.

What? Trump has awful hair for anyone at any age in any situation.

Trump has had a lot of work done. Supposedly he had a botched hair transplant which is why his hair is so messed up.

Vox makes posts to explain why SNL jokes are funny. They've got some great content, but their threshold for what requires their attention is painfully low.

I love Mike's music, but he's a ****ing conspirtard when it come to politics and this song is stupid as ****.

Don't Trump and Hil have about the same life expectancy, actuarially?

Yup.

Trump looks better (I guess) because he's a vain sack of garbage who tries to mask his age.

The Hillary brain-injury thing is maybe the saddest and most desperate attempt from the right. Donald Trump, I mean I guess he's better than somebody with a brain injury (that we made up).

About malice, I agree that elite rich usually do not actively try to hurt people, it is more a wanton disregard, like stepping on an ant on the sidewalk, or dumping pollutants in a lake. These sociopaths very easily ignore externalities when achieving their goals. As a simplified example, if you own one of the few companies that makes military equipment, then in the pursuit of profit you may not only conclude that countries starting new wars is in your best interest, but you may conclude that you can show a greater profit by taking active steps to encourage the catalysts for war. This might be as little as backing the politician you think is most hawkish. Something more sinister would be, you could try to fund terror networks because it leads to more small-arms sales. Companies or other entities with a net worth in the billions have a relatively low cost to influence policy both domestically and around the world compared to the value they may receive from that influence, so almost assuredly they continue to impose their influence in pursuit of their goals.

As for health, it is abundantly clear that Trump is in better health than Clinton. Trump has released a statement from his long term physician, who says "unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency." His campaign schedule has been one of the most grueling ones of all time (giving many speeches per day in different cities, for many days in a row, as well as calling all the talk shows including ones very early in the morning.) Trump has also never shown any public indication of weaknesses in his health. In contrast, Clinton once wore prism (fresnel) glasses that are designed to treat double vision. This happened after her fainting a few years ago caused a concussion. (This was not her first fainting spell; in 2005 she fainted while giving a speech in Buffalo.) After a follow up exam, blood clots found led to a one month leave of absence as Sec. of State, as well as her taking a course of blood thinners which she is still taking. She also has frequent public coughing fits (coughing for 30 seconds to 3 minutes), which have happened a few times recently. She has also sometimes made speeches at rallies lasting under 10 minutes and then had to stop prematurely, presumably for health reasons.

Not much discussion of Trump's refusal to release his tax returns. To me the only question is whether he's trying to hide fraud or a MUCH lower income than he's claimed. Is refusal to release his returns a problem for Trump supports?

I think the like of attack Hillary should use, her general theme, should be that Trump is a con man and people shouldn't let themselves be fooled by him.

I mean this in a serious and kind of deep way. Trump supporters are generally pretty simple, and you're not going to convince them by arguing about policy incoherence, internal contradictions, etc. You need to attack Trump in a way they can understand and fits in their world view. One thing uninformed people hate the most is being hoodwinked--they are inherently suspicious, need to explain their lot in life, and are ready to embrace whatever conspiracies fill the void between the information they have and the world they perceive (in the broadest sense). If you convince even 20% of them that Trump is just a con man, lying about his taxes, lying about China, lying about whatever, in order to become president he will have a very rough road.

Hillary isn't going to tear down Trump by highlighting all the ways he's politically incorrect. His supporters eat that stuff up--he's just telling it like it is. And she's not going to tear him down arguing policy--his supporters couldn't tell good policy from incoherent babbling on their best day. But if you can pull back the curtain and show them that they are being hoodwinked, it's a message they can understand and that will resonate if done right.