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2016 Presidential Election Thread: TRUMP vs. Hillary SMACKDOWN 2016 Presidential Election Thread: TRUMP vs. Hillary SMACKDOWN
View Poll Results: The 45th President of the United States of America will be
Hillary
332 46.63%
TRUMP
190 26.69%
In to watch it burn
161 22.61%
Bastard
73 10.25%
im tryin to tell you about ****in my wife in the *** and youre asking me these personal questions
57 8.01%

11-01-2016 , 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Those are moronic remarks.

Trump has not questioned the core concept of American exceptionalism.

Trumps agenda is not about making America any more of a "normal" country.

Trumps proposals will explode the deficit by drastically cutting funding and he still wants to increase military spending.

Trump hasn't talked about any of that grand building stuff, unless it's the absurd wall which will not be built, would not lead to an increase in productivity and would even be counterproductive for it's intended mission as explained by the very morons at ICE who endorsed him anyway.

Just because Theil made a little speech in complete sentences that sounded cool doesn't mean it was a work of genius. It was idiotic.
microbet, I admire you on a lot of levels, but you aren't a very charitable conversational partner; and I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension.

If the objective of that speech was to give the most reality-based diagnosis of the Trump candidacy possible, it would be an idiotic effort. But (if you listen to his remarks), it's clear that the objective is to present a diagnosis of the American condition.

In particular, Thiel notes during the Q&A that there is "adequate policing of Trump's moral failures", but not nearly enough focus on the underlying problems that have made people so furious at the American establishment.
11-01-2016 , 01:38 AM
Subfallen, his speech was moronic as a diagnosis. As a diagnosis, his speech was analogous to a doctor telling you that you have a cold so he's going to amputate your leg.

https://theringer.com/peter-thiel-do...abe#.6ivhlg4fk

Because I don't have time to waste energy refuting his dumb speech, this person did it for me.
11-01-2016 , 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subfallen
microbet, I admire you on a lot of levels, but you aren't a very charitable conversational partner; and I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension.

If the objective of that speech was to give the most reality-based diagnosis of the Trump candidacy possible, it would be an idiotic effort. But (if you listen to his remarks), it's clear that the objective is to present a diagnosis of the American condition.

In particular, Thiel notes during the Q&A that there is "adequate policing of Trump's moral failures", but not nearly enough focus on the underlying problems that have made people so furious at the American establishment.
BLAK PREZ

BABY BABY

BLAK PREZ
11-01-2016 , 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subfallen
To add one thing: In an ideal world, there would be no reason to worry about losing social justice while rebalancing institutional power and norms away from the elites towards the masses.

But in reality, obviously there are a lot of crazy people and racial identity politics that could endanger minorities during a populist power transfer.
Obviously there's some truth to populism being a threat to civil rights, but populism is also how civil rights got there in the first place.

A few wealthy people on this list, but mostly not - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rights_leaders

The idea that rich people forced civil rights on poor people is totally wrong. Rich people are not less racist.
11-01-2016 , 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
This election revealed that probably the greatest living brain surgeon is a total nutjob, man, and a billionaire real estate developer is an absolute moron. The idea that Thiel is a crank shouldn't be so hard to grasp.


He's not the greatest brain surgeon. He did not even have a good success rate. He just got the most attention. Its a huge show that he created for himself.
11-01-2016 , 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
Subfallen with some sort of reverse Scott Adams thing going on where he literally cannot do anything but take people at exactly their word. No ability to determine if they are incorrect factually(can't fact check a billionaire! He's rich!) or potentially lying(he can't be lying, he's rich!).

It's embarrassing.

Do you know that for us normals we have ways of learning about Donald Trump's candidate BEYOND listening to Peter Thiel? It's true! And we do. And then we disagree with you, a man who knows literally nothing, and get pushback. That people who are better informed that you(~everyone) disagree with you is not cause to think they are jealous or impotent(???), it's cause for you to re-evaluate your current method of learning about politics.
I don't share any of Thiel's political views.

Where you and I hugely differ is on the limits of any political messaging to circumscribe reality.

The most you can do in 30 minutes is try to balance consistent expressions of warmth/power, not be boring, use some memorable imagery, etc. There is no hope of presenting a reality-based analysis that will be comprehensible to the average audience.

I mean, although Scott Adams has some kind of mental problem, he is obviously correct that political messaging is not about conveying facts.
11-01-2016 , 01:49 AM
This is the difference between an ordinary post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatkid
He's already back. He posts regularly itt.
And a quality post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
It feels like he never left.
11-01-2016 , 01:51 AM
Like, I'm sorry a bunch of dumb paint-chip-eating white kids were told they too could grow up and be the president only to watch the uppity negro steal their spot, that was cruel, but damn.
11-01-2016 , 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miller62
How's downballot looking for the Dems?
Ask Peter Thiel questions only please.
11-01-2016 , 01:54 AM
civil rights were not given. they were conceded. if you think otherwise, you think wrong.
11-01-2016 , 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subfallen
microbet, I admire you on a lot of levels, but you aren't a very charitable conversational partner; and I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension.

If the objective of that speech was to give the most reality-based diagnosis of the Trump candidacy possible, it would be an idiotic effort. But (if you listen to his remarks), it's clear that the objective is to present a diagnosis of the American condition.

In particular, Thiel notes during the Q&A that there is "adequate policing of Trump's moral failures", but not nearly enough focus on the underlying problems that have made people so furious at the American establishment.
So what? You can read Noam Chomsky or Glenn Greenwald or Bernie Sanders or Thomas Frank and hear about what is making people unhappy with the status quo, but none of that is full of lies about what Trump is saying.

Anyway Subfallen, I wasn't calling you an idiot or sociopath, but Theil. And regardless of Theil's points, if he's making those points in service of electing Trump, he's either an idiot or some kind of huge *******. There's really no alternative imo.
11-01-2016 , 01:57 AM
Nothing has made me consider that there might be a god quite like the string of events Pence has had to endure for his shameful supporting of Trump

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-bu...medium=twitter

is 3 enough things to make you wake up?
11-01-2016 , 02:02 AM
thoughts on clinton being 98% to win on huffington post?

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/...cast/president

they have both florida and NC above 90% for clinton
11-01-2016 , 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subfallen
but not nearly enough focus on the underlying problems that have made people so furious at the American establishment.
Regarding this part, we had that. Bernie Sanders, the 74 year old Socialist Jew from a tiny state got 45% of the vote in the Democratic primary, made a huge impact on the national discussion on the underlying problems (though it was more that the time was right for his message which had been exactly the same for 35 years), and for what it's worth had a large impact on the Democratic Party platform.

That's all we get for now. We don't need someone with Ronald Reagan's economic plan, the plan that lead to people being so furious at the establishment, capitalizing on that fury.

I have all kinds of patience for philosophical discussions, playing devil's advocate, SMPing, JAQing off or w/e for most things, but Trump is not most things.
11-01-2016 , 02:09 AM
Most sources seem to have Florida as a toss up. Would need evidence to convince me otherwise.
11-01-2016 , 02:15 AM
Do you internet tech guys have a view on this story? Scanning it, I couldn't tell if there's anything there or it's lol so what (though definitely lol at asking Hope Hicks for an explanation).

Quote:
Was a Trump Server Communicating With Russia?

This spring, a group of computer scientists set out to determine whether hackers were interfering with the Trump campaign. They found something they weren’t expecting
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...all_mob_tw_top
11-01-2016 , 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbynator
thoughts on clinton being 98% to win on huffington post?

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/...cast/president

they have both florida and NC above 90% for clinton
They've included a Clinton +13 poll in Florida that was excluded by RCP and 538 because it's an internet poll lol.
11-01-2016 , 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
This election revealed that probably the greatest living brain surgeon is a total nutjob, man, and a billionaire real estate developer is an absolute moron. The idea that Thiel is a crank shouldn't be so hard to grasp.
❤️ this post.

I may hang it on my wall to admire after the election.
11-01-2016 , 02:37 AM
Bernie agreed with Hillary on 98% of stuff, so stop saying that he moved the party to the left. In a lot of ways he repackaged a roughly the same progressive agenda. Some of his own ideas made sense, but not a slam dunk. they may turn out not to be forward looking enough like free college, or simply impatient like the issue of obamacare vs single payer.

Single payer will happen at some point when the country is ready. It just makes too much sense not to, but losing that legislative battle right now may set it back decades. there are other more important issues.

Free college sounds great and may actually turn a lot of voters into democrats if the polling is right. But it may take 4+ years to ramp up and notice an effect, duration of college. I would say currently future of colleges may be ripe for disruption, but an influx of new students from families who couldn't afford it before may extend their lifetime. We'll see I guess.

However, it is wrong to assume that college is where you help the most people. A lot of research shows that the earlier you invest into kids, the more positive the effect becomes, which is sort of hillary's thing. She'll be doing things like this regardless.

Personally, I think hillary's mental health care program could help a lot trump supporters immediately, and in the next 4 years if done correctly could help everything from opiates abuse, to mass shootings, suicides, conspiracy theorists, and who knows what else. Not sure if sanders ever mentione something like that.
11-01-2016 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subfallen
Lol. This obviously isn't about Peter Thiel, it's about how people prioritize the relative urgency of two valid courses of action:
  1. Questioning the basic assumptions behind modern America's institutions and norms (e.g. free trade, immigration policy, foreign policy), on the grounds of their profound failure to improve average quality of life; vs.
  2. Protecting the incremental progress that has been made within those institutions and norms.
Greater social justice for minorities is the most significant form of incremental progress being made within our current paradigm. So I understand why people want to police discourse that prioritizes skepticism. (And, indeed, I like the establishment just fine).

But I think it's obvious that there is a strong argument to be made that progress in social justice is somewhat illusory if we do not have reality-based institutions and norms that empower a rising standard of life.

Furthermore, I think it's obvious that Thiel is making this case.



These are not the remarks of a moron, or a sociopath. They are the remarks of a thinking person with an agenda. If you disagree---fine!
Yes how bizarre that the country with the largest economy and the largest market would also have a large trade deficit.

Trump's solution is of course to ruin the economy and thus make no one want to sell goods in the U.S. any more, an idea that has the glowing endorsement of Peter Thiel.
11-01-2016 , 02:49 AM
Samantha Bee had a segment on Russian Internet trolls tonight. Though it just scratched the surface, this was the first I've seen it covered in a major media (ok, basic cable) segment. I have no idea how accurate the claim was about 1/3rd of election traffic on some sites, that number can't really be true, can it?



Also segments on the alt right and an interview with POTUS. Looks like he's making the rounds as an election surrogate on his terms, he's even heading to Bill Maher this week.
11-01-2016 , 02:50 AM


goat

Last edited by Loki; 11-01-2016 at 02:51 AM. Reason: damn my pony!
11-01-2016 , 02:52 AM
Trump: "I'm going to cut taxes for rich people!"

Clinton: "I'm going to raise taxes on rich people!"

Peter Thiel, a rich guy, shockingly endorses the former person over the latter. Wow what a deep thinker he must be.
11-01-2016 , 02:57 AM
kasich voting not for trump, but instead mccain
11-01-2016 , 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
I'm sure they'll wage pre-impeachment proceedings on emails during the lame duck sessions. Just listen to Trump drone on about this to see how much fertile ground is here. They can just mad lib their nonsense stats, throw around inane technical terms they don't understand, make it tawdry and lustful and Islamophobic since Weiner's dick pics and Huma Abedin are at the center of it. Like there's a non-zero you will hear a sentence like "Huma Abedin and Hillary Clinton used bleach bit to delete 650,000 emails before taking 13 hammers to her phone to prevent Comey from investigating her Muslim Brotherhood ties to Benghazi, which an unnamed source has said were acid washed, all because of pictures of a male genitals!" spoken non-ironically by a GOP Congressman between now and January. It won't make any sense at all but it's already part and parcel of the GOP talking point playbook, the mish mash gibberish where every sentence has some X number of emails, a vaguely technical point about email, some dramatic thing Hillary did to them, and then sometimes, a quip about Huma or Weiner either being Muslim or the dude's dick.
Related:

The Media Freakout Over the Clinton Email Story Is a Preview of the Next Four Years

Quote:
There are two vital things to understand about that future. The first is that Republicans will be devoting the bulk of their energies in the next four (or eight) years to finding—or, if that fails, inventing—Clinton "scandals." This isn't a possibility, it's a certainty. Last Wednesday, the Washington Post reported that Representative Jason Chaffetz, chair of the House oversight committee, is already planning on "spending years, come January, probing the record of a President Hillary Clinton." And it won't just be Chaffetz's committee—don't forget that Republicans managed to conduct eight separate congressional investigations of Benghazi in an endless quest to get something on Clinton. If Republicans hold the House, without any actual legislating to distract them they'll do almost nothing but investigate her. They know well, because it was their strategy throughout the 1990s, that if you can't find a scandal you can still create the appearance of a scandal just by launching one investigation after the next, berating administration witnesses, and shaking your fists in the air for the benefit of the cameras.

The second thing to understand is that the news media will eat all this up with a spoon. Washington journalists long ago convinced themselves that the Clintons are corrupt, and there's some kind of Watergate-level scandal about them just waiting for the right intrepid reporter to discover. And just like Republicans, they too know that while a scandal is the best story, a pseudo-scandal is almost as good, because it allows for all kinds of "BREAKING NEWS!!!" chyrons and breathless speculation. As Jonathan Allen wrote in perhaps the best explanation of the special rules that govern how the media treats them, "The Clinton rules are driven by reporters' and editors' desire to score the ultimate prize in contemporary journalism: the scoop that brings down Hillary Clinton and her family's political empire. At least in that way, Republicans and the media have a common interest."

And consider this: If and when Clinton is elected, Republicans will complain bitterly that the news media were too harsh on Donald Trump. This is a complicated issue, but what's undeniable is that Trump has forced journalists to find new ways to talk about a candidate who lies as frequently as Trump, has such contempt for democratic norms, and who attacks journalists themselves so unceasingly and personally. Even if all their decisions in shaping that coverage have been justified, they'll be eager to show they aren't playing favorites, and one of the best ways to show you aren't captive to "liberal bias" is to rake Hillary Clinton over the coals.
Co-sign all of this. If you thought the past few days debating the merits of an indescribable scandal that even the critics can't coherently explain with no actual information was tedious, it only continues from here.

- no governing to do
- revanchist GOP base can only be united in their will to shame HRC, obstructing HRC main play to unify party after toxic election
- media hates the Clintons or at least cover them far more skeptically than a league average politician (I can acknowledge the Clintons invite some of this), and have collectively built up the notion that the right-wing fever swamp stuff about the Clintons are valid or at least potentially so and feed it into the mainstream news diet; this was less true about Obama

All of this is to say I think 2020 HRC re-election campaign is going to be a huge uphill battle. Economy has grown steadily, recession/correction might be likely. It is a fait accompli she will be entirely scandalized, merits be damned and tons of fence-sitters, NeverTrumpers, 'undecideds' and others will have some potentially large set of faux scandalous stuff to point to as reasons for why they are folding back into the GOP. Plus a fourth consecutive term of one party holding the Presidency is a rarity; the 'change' narrative is going to play well regardless. Only factors in the Democrats favor (and it's a big one) are the related demographic death of the GOP base + GOP's inability to fight the associated epistemic closure/white oppostional cultural problems. In other words, GOP might not be able to get out of their own way and stumble on the way to the layup.

HRC is probably going to win and we'll probably dodge Trump and that's nice but unless there are some huge crisis, events, foreign policy stuff, etc. that really change the political culture and dynamics, or HRC/the Democrats are really effective getting out of this feedback loop, I don't see how the next 4 years plays out much differently than the campaign.

Last edited by DVaut1; 11-01-2016 at 03:19 AM.

      
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