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2016 Presidential Debates Thread 2016 Presidential Debates Thread

09-28-2016 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
You think minority groups are less happy then when they had less rights? Really? Reminder that this dude is not a troll, just a normal uneducated trump voter.
Quit insulting him bro. Do you even lift? Bunch of pansy ass libruls in this board I tell ya.
09-28-2016 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
The country was happier when people were going to church on Sundays, having barbeques with their neighbors, and making a living wage.
09-28-2016 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
You think minority groups are less happy then when they had less rights? Really? Reminder that this dude is not a troll, just a normal uneducated trump voter.
I don't know, you tell me. They seem angrier and angrier by the day as they gain more and more traction in society. It's like the analogy "If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk"

I lol'd at the Leave it to Beaver photo. But, what's so bad about people being kind to each other and smiling. Or is being a smiling white person code for being a racist?
09-28-2016 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze
Pretty nuts how none of my minority friends have ever brought up this free college scheme nor seem to be aware that they should not be paying their loans.

I honestly can't tell if he believes that there is a special "don't have to pay back your loans" program that is available only to minorities, or he's just talking about the standard, open to everyone, Income Based Repayment policy http://www.ibrinfo.org/what.vp.html and arguing that there is no racism in the world because minorities aren't banned from participation.
09-28-2016 , 05:41 PM
Yo OK church attendance, living wages, fine, totally degraded. But barbecues? When the **** did we get rid of those? I call BS, pretty sure barbecues are thriving in America.
09-28-2016 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPHoya
I'll take this bait.

I would never push the button.

However, if the button were pushed, it would hasten social progress, encourage economic growth, hasten improvements in the provision of education and health care, bring domestic policy in-line with little-l liberal ideals like the fundamental equality of humans and fairness to each of them, hasten the equality of men and women in the workplace, reduce racial discrimination across all aspects of public life, reduce gun ownership precipitously, immediately improve environmental policy, almost immediately eliminate white nationalism, provide job opportunity to all of the people the cohort of Trump voters have kept out of the workforce for a generation, and more simply it would speed up the boomer curtainfall and thereby bring to a near close both the influence and the existence of the single most wasteful and least productive generation in American history.

So like, it would be really awful, and ten years later everyone who survived would be better off, no longer burdened by the pure worst human beings in all of America.

It would, ultimately, make America great again.
So what if you changed pushing the button to kill, to pushing a button to institute a simple voting qualification test that would achieve a lot of the same goals?
09-28-2016 , 05:42 PM
This guy says it well, though I'm not sure I agree with everything here.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...gaining-ground

Quote:

Trump also would “develop a list of regions and countries from which immigration must be suspended until proven and effective vetting mechanisms can be put into place.” As part of this strict scrutiny, Trump said, “Applicants will be asked for their views about honor killings, about respect for women and gays and minorities, attitudes on Radical Islam, and many other topics as part of the vetting procedure.”

In their upcoming debates, Trump should ask Hillary Clinton: “What’s wrong with barring from America those who believe that women should be murdered by their relatives for going on dates, and gays should be stoned to death?”

Refuting those who argue that he opposes all immigration, Trump said, “We want people to come into our country, but they have to come in legally and properly-vetted, and in a manner that serves the national interest.”
09-28-2016 , 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Yo OK church attendance, living wages, fine, totally degraded. But barbecues? When the **** did we get rid of those? I call BS, pretty sure barbecues are thriving in America.
Haha Truth.
09-28-2016 , 05:44 PM


don't skip leg day
09-28-2016 , 05:44 PM
Oh snap, Aqmed was one question away from being accepted as an immigrant but then went on a massive tangent about honor killings. Thank God we asked!
09-28-2016 , 05:45 PM
You should be open to the possibility that you're wrong about a lot of things. Take a deep breath and open up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
If you look at the past two decades or more, you have seen massive progress in gay rights, women's rights, minority rights, as well as awareness of all of these issues. It's pretty obvious when you turn on the TV that it's cool" to be a liberal. The irony is that tensions are at an all time high with all of these groups. Gays are unhappy. Women are unhappy. Blacks are unhappy. Latinos are unhappy. They keep electing liberals, legislation is being passed in their favor (gay marriage, affordable care act, transgender bathroonms) and yet all we see is racial and social division in the news. America really hasn't become a better place to live and people are friggin unhappy and complaining all the time.
Gay marriage has changed recently. What other rights have minorities gained since 1996?

Tensions are higher now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

What legislation on transgender bathrooms? Many Universities started creating gender neutral bathrooms (not legislation - also my dorms in 1985 had gender neutral bathrooms). Some cities required gender neutral signs on public single occupancy bathrooms. After that several conservative states passed laws requiring people to use bathrooms that matched their birth sex.

Quote:
I think the real source of this unhappiness is that the middle class is shrinking. There aren't as many good jobs. Entry level jobs pay less and people's salaries aren't going up. Americans got fat, lazy, and materialistic, and now that the bubble is starting to burst, everyone is going crazy.

People can call me a racist or dumb. Call me whatever you want. The country was happier when people were going to church on Sundays, having barbeques with their neighbors, and making a living wage. These are all tenants of conservatism even if you think Christianity or all religion is hogwash.
How is a living wage a conservative issue? What is the solution to salaries in the private industry? The conservative solution to that is for the POTUS to say private industry sets salaries, period.

Quote:
Liberals act like all they want to do is get along with each other and that they are so tolerant, but look at how insulting every poster on here was about me, just for me stating my opinion.
That's the internet for you and certainly not all liberals are personally nice.

Quote:
The reason I even make the points I make is because liberalism is being fed to us daily through all media outlets, yet where is conservatism allowed to be discussed publicly?
The media is almost all corporate and economically fairly conservative. Fox and AM radio are radical right wing propaganda and most of the "talent" is literally paid by libertarian foundations for their content.
09-28-2016 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet

Any "extreme" liberalness since then has been in the province of social issues where one side sees it as advocating for the rights of minority groups (including LGBT) and the other side as protecting an "old fashioned" culture, which most of the liberals (I think correctly) see as oppressive or at the very least indifferent and resentful to people outside the majority.
True. And this is an area where most conservatives have basically conceded to democrats/liberals.

The white-surbuban folks, like "The Leave it to Beavers" all started going liberal and promoting its cause. They watch the late night talk shows, go see Hollywood movies, go to liberal colleges. A lot of them vote democrat.

Only the blue collar hillybillty types are the hostile racists. This group seriously has no political or economic power and they have been satirized to death (Southpark).

Yes, there are elitist whites. Donald Trump is one. Hillary is another. They think they are better than everyone because they are rich, and probably not because they are "white". But, it's really a dumb tangent, because who cares, we all know rich people look down on everyone else.

But as far as society goes, it's probably a wise move to be "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" as it seems to combine the strengths of both ideologies.
09-28-2016 , 05:55 PM
(Southpark)
09-28-2016 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
Yes, and I agree with the conservative platform and not the liberal platform.

If you look at the past two decades or more, you have seen massive progress in gay rights, women's rights, minority rights, as well as awareness of all of these issues. It's pretty obvious when you turn on the TV that it's cool" to be a liberal. The irony is that tensions are at an all time high with all of these groups. Gays are unhappy. Women are unhappy. Blacks are unhappy. Latinos are unhappy. They keep electing liberals, legislation is being passed in their favor (gay marriage, affordable care act, transgender bathroonms) and yet all we see is racial and social division in the news. America really hasn't become a better place to live and people are friggin unhappy and complaining all the time.

I think the real source of this unhappiness is that the middle class is shrinking. There aren't as many good jobs. Entry level jobs pay less and people's salaries aren't going up. Americans got fat, lazy, and materialistic, and now that the bubble is starting to burst, everyone is going crazy.

People can call me a racist or dumb. Call me whatever you want. The country was happier when people were going to church on Sundays, having barbeques with their neighbors, and making a living wage. These are all tenants of conservatism even if you think Christianity or all religion is hogwash.

Liberals act like all they want to do is get along with each other and that they are so tolerant, but look at how insulting every poster on here was about me, just for me stating my opinion.

The reason I even make the points I make is because liberalism is being fed to us daily through all media outlets, yet where is conservatism allowed to be discussed publicly?
Which decade would you like to go back to? With your set of beliefs, you would definitely be cool with pre WW1 America. Women knew their place in the house and blacks couldn't vote.
09-28-2016 , 05:58 PM
Fiscal conservative doesn't mean spending within your means and all that hunky dorey stuff that doesn't even apply to governments anyway. It means marginal tax rate cuts by any means necessary.
09-28-2016 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
Dissing the Beav is just wrong!

What's next?

Spoiler:
09-28-2016 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
I don't know, you tell me. They seem angrier and angrier by the day as they gain more and more traction in society. It's like the analogy "If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk"

I lol'd at the Leave it to Beaver photo. But, what's so bad about people being kind to each other and smiling. Or is being a smiling white person code for being a racist?

As a lesbian, I will personally say that I am both:

(A) Significantly happier both personally and with the general state of lgbtq rights today than I was 20 years ago. I can get married, walk down the street holding hands with a woman with less fear of getting harassed/attacked (haven't had a beer bottle thrown at me or been called a "****ing dyke" in at least 5 years!!! #feels good, man) have sex without fear of getting arrested, be out at my job, publicly hang out with my lgbtq friends who are in the military without worrying that my "alternative" apoearance might accidentally out them, etc., etc.

(B) More likely to publicly talk about the issues where I would still like to see progress made because I don't have as much to fear in the way of consequences and I know more people will have my back.

Tl/dr: Just because I finally found my voice, doesn't mean that I was happier when I was silent.
09-28-2016 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
True. And this is an area where most conservatives have basically conceded to democrats/liberals.

The white-surbuban folks, like "The Leave it to Beavers" all started going liberal and promoting its cause. They watch the late night talk shows, go see Hollywood movies, go to liberal colleges. A lot of them vote democrat.

Only the blue collar hillybillty types are the hostile racists. This group seriously has no political or economic power and they have been satirized to death (Southpark).

Yes, there are elitist whites. Donald Trump is one. Hillary is another. They think they are better than everyone because they are rich, and probably not because they are "white". But, it's really a dumb tangent, because who cares, we all know rich people look down on everyone else.

But as far as society goes, it's probably a wise move to be "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" as it seems to combine the strengths of both ideologies.
Except Trump has made being anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim part of his campaign. That's why it's a big issue. That's why David Duke et al are in his fan club.

And then if you look a little below the surface, the propaganda about supply-side economics wasn't enough and the actually beneficiaries are too small a constituency, ergo Republicans became the party of racism.

Is there something in here which you oppose?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1968

Because the GOP became the party in opposition to them in order to get some voters from the middle and lower classes and that's been part of their constituency ever since.
09-28-2016 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze
Fiscal conservative doesn't mean spending within your means and all that hunky dorey stuff that doesn't even apply to governments anyway. It means marginal tax rate cuts by any means necessary.
You can spot someone who knows nothing about government or macroeconomics if they use the household or business analogy.
09-28-2016 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze
Fiscal conservative doesn't mean spending within your means and all that hunky dorey stuff that doesn't even apply to governments anyway. It means marginal tax rate cuts by any means necessary.
How on Gods green earth does spending within your means not apply to government?
09-28-2016 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze
Fiscal conservative doesn't mean spending within your means and all that hunky dorey stuff that doesn't even apply to governments anyway. It means marginal tax rate cuts by any means necessary.
Fiscal conservatism is a buzz phrase that sounds good but only is good if you're in the 1%.
09-28-2016 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
But as far as society goes, it's probably a wise move to be "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" as it seems to combine the strengths of both ideologies.
No Republican President has been fiscally conservative since before Nixon anyway. Cutting taxes and still increasing spending is what has happened. There's some shift from spending on social programs and infrastructure to prisons, police, and war is all.

But then, even if Republicans were fiscally conservative, look at the history of the last 100 years and tell me how you think prosperity for the bulk of the population matches up with government spending.
09-28-2016 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerin Hank
How on Gods green earth does spending within your means not apply to government?
It's more like it applies differently to governments, and very differently to governments which issue debt in their own fiat currency.
09-28-2016 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze
Fiscal conservative doesn't mean spending within your means and all that hunky dorey stuff that doesn't even apply to governments anyway. It means marginal tax rate cuts by any means necessary.
I'm aware of this. The tax breaks put more money into every day people's pockets. Not such a bad thing.
09-28-2016 , 06:09 PM
I hate to break it to you Microbet but supply side economics is actually how a market economy works. Demand side or what ever else you want to call it is just pablum. Trickle down economics is the reality of the capitalist world. JFK put it well, "a rising tide lifts all boats"

      
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