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UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix

02-15-2010 , 11:48 PM
Machida/Rua opened at -170/+140 at bookmaker.

Last edited by chucky; 02-15-2010 at 11:56 PM.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:04 AM
It will end up at:
Shogun: EVEN
Machida -120

imo
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:06 AM
true line is a PK imo
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:08 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Shogun gets the benefit of the doubt this time around (wins anything close to a draw)
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:13 AM
Shogun by AOLK (Accumulation of leg kicks)
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:21 AM
machida will win this time. ( )
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artdogg
I wouldn't be surprised if Shogun gets the benefit of the doubt this time around (wins anything close to a draw)
Historically, in boxing, this is true imo
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:50 AM
i'm in machida again, but idk about -170
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 01:06 AM
This line seems about right. Right now I am hoping shogun wins, so silva fights shogun, which would be an awesome fight.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 01:26 AM
Shogun an underdog. LOL.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 01:30 AM
Not betting this. It all depends on Shogun being able to fight that well again and improve his game to add another dimension, as well has having the discipline to continue to stay away from his boxing, and for Machida to step up his kick counters to the level of his punch defense.

We've never seen Machida have to adapt his style to a new opponent like this, so we don't even know if he can or if he's just a one-trick pony with a great trick.

I don't think either side is a smart play with the odds being close, since there's no good information.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 01:55 AM
I don't see how Machida deals with the leg kicks without completely changing his game. Shogun's strategy was brilliant.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 02:01 AM
Use Pride rules ONE TIME!!!
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 02:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead
I don't see how Machida deals with the leg kicks without completely changing his game. Shogun's strategy was brilliant.
I don't know. I don't pretend to be the caliber of striker it would take to give Machida advice, but he's a smart fighter and is an expert at intercepting incoming strikes already, plus he already has that beautiful trick of sweeping the leg right before an opponent puts it on the floor and fully shifts weight to it.

I think it's possible he works it out, or that Shogun gets overconfident and turns to punches and gets zapped.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 02:07 AM
early movement to machida.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead
I don't see how Machida deals with the leg kicks without completely changing his game. Shogun's strategy was brilliant.
Yea, it's the kind of thing that if you couldn't adjust mid fight chances are you still won't be able to 6 months later.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 02:34 AM
Shogun is clearly the more well rounded fighter , hopefully he gets the win he was robbed of last time .
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artdogg
I wouldn't be surprised if Shogun gets the benefit of the doubt this time around (wins anything close to a draw)
This.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 05:27 AM
If the super close rounds are scored 10-9 Shogun rather than 10-9 Machida (as they were the first time) that is a massive advantage in this close of a match up. Too bad judges are discouraged from scoring rounds 10-10
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 05:37 AM
I'd be fine with no 10-10s if they ever correctly gave out 10-8s.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 10:47 AM
I thought this would open close to even. Sick
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 10:56 AM
Can I set an over or under for how many times Joe Rogan will say 'OMG a leg kick' or any combo of Leg Kick? We could even do a a supremacy whereby we subtract the amount of times he says the words 'leg kick' from the amount of actual leg kicks. Considering he mentions it every second this could make up negative as he could say the words leg kick more times than actual leg kicks. Do yanks know how supremacy and spreads work?

Leg kick ftw
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Humungus
I don't know.

I think it's possible he works it out, or that Shogun gets overconfident and turns to punches and gets zapped.
It's not a matter of Machida making simple adjustments. All fighting styles have their strengths and weaknesses. Machida's karate-based striking leaves him vulnerable to kicks. It's an inherent weakness of the style he uses.

Problem is, of course, is that in order for Machida to defend the leg kicks, he has to change his stance and movement. But it's precisely these things that made him such an elusive and effective striker to begin with.

So, Machida has a choice. Keep eating kicks and use his very effective striking style, or defend the kicks and make fundamental changes to his striking (i.e. Degrade it). You can't have your cake and eat it, too...that's the problem Machida is facing.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiamide
You can't have your cake and eat it, too...that's the problem Machida is facing.
But you can have your pee and drink it too ... i'm sorry but it was right there

Last edited by DodgerIrish; 02-16-2010 at 01:09 PM.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote
02-16-2010 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiamide
It's not a matter of Machida making simple adjustments. All fighting styles have their strengths and weaknesses. Machida's karate-based striking leaves him vulnerable to kicks. It's an inherent weakness of the style he uses.

Problem is, of course, is that in order for Machida to defend the leg kicks, he has to change his stance and movement. But it's precisely these things that made him such an elusive and effective striker to begin with.

So, Machida has a choice. Keep eating kicks and use his very effective striking style, or defend the kicks and make fundamental changes to his striking (i.e. Degrade it). You can't have your cake and eat it, too...that's the problem Machida is facing.
I'm not sure he'd have to completely abandon his current style to adjust to leg kicks. It's not like he's in a horse stance or low boxing stance with his legs completely planted and immobile for kicking. He's very light on his feet and throws kicks lightly, there's room for adaptation.

The big problem for Shogun is that he has given up the element of surprise. If he just comes in planning to leg kick Machida to a narrow victory again, Machida has had 6 months to prepare for that. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't.
UFC 113: Machida vs Shogun II: This time no fix Quote

      
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