LOL at 2p2 taking on another scamming tout service for an advertiser. Does the person who's responsible for such decisions not do a basic google background check, or does nobody care?

Who?

Anthony Curtis/LVA. He charges a monthly fee for his sports forum where his hosts post picks against lines that don't exist (as in the spread is +3 everywhere, he says bet team +4), he has deleted threads that contain losing picks, anybody who compiles their (losing) records, or points out that the posted lines don't exist gets their threads deleted and is banned, etc. And add the standard false advertising that comes with the territory.

Ah, OK. I don't think their advertising here is centred around sports betting at all, so I don't have any idea if that side of things was looked into. Regardless, that would be an issue to take up with Mason or Mat, because I'm pretty sure that deal was made right up top.

As for not caring, I'd think you'd already know the answer to that after the RAS campaign was cancelled and refunded part-way through.

Hi Tom:

Our arrangement with Anthony Curtis and the Las Vegas Advisor concerns the LVA Newsletter which we think is very good, and the Members Reward Book which we think is better than very good.

My understanding concerning his sports betting site is that the information given is good, the person hosting the site is very knowledgeable, but this doesn't mean you're going to beat sports, especially if you're making large bets. Therefore in our arrangement with Anthony Curtis and the Las Vegas Advisor, we are only promoting the LVA Newsletter and the Members Rewards Book.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi Mason,

As has been pointed out twice now,

the information is not good.

The person in question gives out picks with lines that do not exist.

He either does this because he is oblivious or because he wants to appear better than he really happens to be. Imagine if one made picks and instead of posting lines that really do exist they perpetually used lines bettering their odds? What would happen? Their record would be better than it possibly could be in reality. If I made every 50/50 poker hand 52-48 it would change things quite a bit.

Further the losing picks threads are now inexplicably disappearing.
An honest sort would do their best ,if it was indeed an honest mistake to recreate the information for anyone interested in it, not invent reasons why it suddenly vanished into thin air.

I am not sure why AC is continuing to support this charade and otherwise denigrate the LVA franchise with it.


This is as blatant dishonesty that anyone could possibly engage in while involved in the selling picks business.

Best Wishes,
Am Alert

Mason,

The reports above are accurate. LVASports is dirty and Kezzik is a flim-flam artist.

Any partnership with Las Vegas Advisor hurts your brand. (bedfellows and whatnot)

Adam

The information is crap. Not only is it completely worthless, because he simply gives himself free points or less juice on every bet he posts, BUT HE LOSES ANYWAY. The other guy has some nice resume points, but he's a huge loser while hosting at LVA. And AC's handling of the situation- saying that his forum "is not a picks site", deleting any reference to their losing records or ridiculous fake lines, and now deleting threads containing a pile of losing picks- is pure sleaze. You have multiple professional sports bettors telling you the same thing.

Hi Admo:

I'm not personally familiar with the information in LVASports. So I rely on someone I know who is quite knowledgeable in the area of sports betting, and what my post states is based on what he has told me.

However, I do have some familiarity with Fezzik (I believe, not Kezzik), and do understand that he is knowledgeable although he has done poorly recently. We also believe, as I stated above, that the LVA Newsletter and their coupon book are very good products, and that's all we're associating the Two Plus Two brand with.

Also, if you have issues in this area, the best place on our site to post about it is probably our Sports Betting Forum. In addition, I have asked Anthony Curtis to look at this thread, so perhaps he'll address this issue directly here. But that will be his decision.

Best wishes,
mason

In case you skimmed the posts above, the hosts at LVASports:

Make picks against fake lines. eg. if the line on the Superbowl is GB -3, they'll post that they like GB -4, a line not offered anywhere in town or offshore.

Cover up losing picks they've made after the fact.

Delete threads and ban members who compile the losing picks showing that these guys can't win even while stacking the deck.

We're suggesting his scumbaggery is more relevant than his win/loss record.


LVA and LVASports are joined at the hip. The largest forum (by far) on LVA is LVASports; at the top of that forum is a sticky note written by Anthony himself telling everyone that this popular forum is now closed and directing them to "Check us out at the new LVASports". The LVASports site is rife with "Anthony Curtis' Las Vegas Advisor" branding.

Seems unlikely (to me at least) that you'd sell an Ultimate Bet coupon book, regardless of how good it was.

Associating with fraudsters is a forum issue.

I like Anthony, a lot actually. But his ties to these guys are hurting him, and now they're hurting you.

It seems like this is deserving of its own thread.

edit: typo, meant:

"...if the line on the Superbowl is PIT +3, they'll post that they like PIT +4..."

This kind of thing really amazes me. Someone gets bounced from our boards for breaking rules or having a personal beef with someone and they make it their mission to "hurt" me or it or whatever. LVASports is excellent for a few reasons, but the the main reason is that this sort of thing cannot go on there. We charge $24.95 per month specifically to stop nasty and uninformed posting. When trolls, bullies, or others with an agenda show up, we stop it immediately. The fee is for the moderation that keeps things civil and fun for the participants.

LVASports began as FezziksPlace. It was free and vibrant until it got overrun with the problem posters. Fezzik got tired of it and left, so we changed the name to LVASports. Frankly, that became a cesspool. I was gonna shut it down completely when we got the idea about the fee. The trouble-making types can't bear to lose $25, so they don't join. On the rare occasions that they do, if they break the rules they get kicked off and we don't refund the one-month fee. They NEVER return with a different name, because they know if they do and spout off, they lose $25 again. It's a really good model for keeping things clean.

Regarding the information, the two main guys are Fezzik and Alf Musketa. Fezzik won the Hilton two years in a row. If you don't see the power in that, then I will never convince you of any of this. It's the same as Chan winning the WSOP consecutively, only Fezzik beat more people both times. Alf has dozens (at least) of big-money bettors following him for his golf alone. Others have emerged on the site who get a lot of respect because they post up front and have had success. No one deletes posts or puts up ghost lines. If anything, there are arguments started about what's "widely available" or not, and because determing WA lines is always such a point of controversy, I try to downplay official records. When Alf joined, he wanted his tracked record from Vegas Insider displayed, so I acquiessed. But we have never promoted LVASports based on a display of winning records, with the exception of Fezzik's tournament results.

LVASports is a good idea and serves a lot of people well. It's $199 for a year to have a hassle-free evironment with several bonified experts participating. There are no promises. There is no pressure advertising and full refunds are given when someone wants one (aside from the penalty situations described). Certainly we have some disatisfied customers -- usually when they have a losing run because they don't understand the realities of fluctuation and are looking for the nonexistant "magic pill" for winning at sports betting. When they leave, I thank them for their business.

By the way, I knew things like this would come up when I agreed to post on this forum. Except for this post -- and follow-up answering any direct questions you'd like to ask related to it -- I won't bother with defending against accusations about honesty. Anyone who knows me knows that everything I do in business is honest.

One more thing to think about. After expenses, the membership fees we take in hardly registers in the revenue tally for Huntington Press. So making money that way, at least at this point, isn't even part of the discussion for us. The information I get from that board for my own betting, along with potential for this model in the future, is why I keep it going.

Just IMO,

after i read admo's post, i was inclined to believe that, at the very least, there was something untoward going on at lva sports.

i looked at the site though, and honestly i cant see anything there that promises accurate or useful picks, or accurate recording of past picks. It seems to offer exactly what ACLVA is saying, a moderated forum to discuss sports where these two particular people participate.

If they really do give refunds to ppl who arent happy with what they get, i dont really see it as being an issue of dishonesty. It appears that several people think the forum is poorly run/modded, but even if they are right, that isnt dishonesty.

Appreciate the comment. The irony is in the last line, as it's the excessive moderation that gets these guys up in arms, because they can't control the board. You should see the PMs I get simply saying "thanks." It's the protection from abuse that a lot of the customers there are looking for.

This is simply a lie.

So.. since nobody is deleting posts, and you have had a lot of what you call problem posters who you've banned, you should be able to comp Mason or any 2p2 staff member and quickly and easily show them where the "trouble" posts and threads are that got them banned. But you can't, since you deleted them, and then lied about it here. You should also be able to show Mason Alf's Bob Hope Classic thread.. but you can't, since you deleted it, and then lied about it here.

This, of course, is also a lie. You've booted, or revoked comps, to a significant number of professional bettors who couldn't care less about $25 dollars because their wagers are routinely 100 times that big (or more).

No, but do you see anything there that if somebody compiles and posts an accurate record of said picks, that it will be summarily deleted and the person's comp revoked?

When you advertise the presence of two people, and systematically delete accurate compilations of their records to hide the fact that they're losing badly, and then boot the people who made them, that's dishonest. Plain and simple.

Is there a question in this? There's a complete posting of Fezzik's record up on the boards now. It's compiled by ComptrBob and he's been putting it up for months now. I didn't want it for some of the reasons I've touched on and others, and I still don't like it, but I let it go and it's there. I don't think you know at all what you're tallking about and you have an obvious agenda. Is there something that you've accomplished in this business that would compel me to respond directly to you again?

Since you're big on disclosure, let's disclose that you considered Jon in Oakland a valuable enough contributor that he was one of the old LVA Sports moderators, and that you considered both he and PerpetualCzech valuable enough contributors that you comped them both accounts to the new LVA Sports pay site. They did not like how the tout side of board was being run, expressed their concerns, and you promptly revoked their comps. You've repeatedly insinuated that they were both paying customers, when in fact you comped their accounts.

As has been repeated ad nauseum, winning the Hilton contest has absolutely nothing to do with actual betting. Hilton contestants pick plays on Friday vs lines the Hilton puts out on Tuesday. Fezzik lost significantly on the picks he gave out to LVA subscribers in 2009, the first year of the pay board. Winning the Hilton contest twice is impressive, yet completely irrelevant to whether anyone will win following his advice.

Untrue. There have been many documented examples where Alf posted lines that were many hours old, if not days old.

And his tracked record from Vegas Insider is garbage. Vegas Insider is a tout service and he was one of their touts. Vegas Insider's record keeping was discussed at length on your old message board and it is dishonest.

You may be honest in your business dealings, but advertising a Vegas Insider record is certainly not honest. Perhaps you weren't aware of their issues with record keeping, so I suggest you read the thread PerpetualCzech posted in the other forum where Alf's VI record was discussed on your old board many years ago.

There's a Vegas Insider record advertised for Alf that borders on fraudulent, and many posters who've attempted to compile Fezzik or Alf's record have had their posts deleted and their comps revoked.

Actually I just found multiple threads on another forum where former LVA members who were not banned asked for refunds and were not given them.

Anthony,

I'll lay 2-1 for up to 20k that this isn't true. We both escrow and Mason can arbitrate. PM me if interested.

Adam

You all are making my very point about record-keeping. WA for one often isn't remotely WA for someone else. That's why I fought against third-party records and continue to discount anyone's record-keeping of another. This is the source of 95% of the arguments on any sports site and it's borderline impossible to convince anyone that they're wrong, because their opinion of WA is their reality. The only true barometer is everyone's own results. You have to keep your own records based on the information you get. You can argue against this all you want, but you're wrong.

Regarding refunds, etc., I've explained how we operate. If you don't believe me, then you don't. I'm not gonna beg you to listen, understand, believe, or anything else. I could care less if you join LVASports, or even what you have to say about it once I'm done responding here. People love to hate. It's a waste of my time.

My obvious agenda is to point out your dishonest practices. As far as I know, I've never laid eyes on you or Alf or communicated with either of you online before now. I've talked to Fezzik once in a group setting a few years ago, it was friendly, and I doubt he'd even remember me if he saw me. I'm not sure if I've ever participated in a Fezzik thread, although it's quite possible, but I've never been in any kind of an online pissing match with him, nor do I have any history of ragging on him. I have nothing against any of you personally- I don't even have a history with any of you personally.

LOL at trying to big-time me instead of actually responding to the points of fact that I raised. You've deleted posts. Lots of posts. And Alf's lines are absurd.

This should be a new thread. Also, having never visiting any sites in question but just by reading these posts, I'd take action on Admo's side, just sayin.

That's a contradiction. "Widely available" means a line should reasonably be available to subscribers with a reasonable number of outs, hence there should be no difference between WA from one person to the next.

The only two sites of which I know that have tried to establish a WA standard for grading are Sharp Sports Betting and Betting Talk, and I couldn't even tell you the last time there was an argument about what was WA and what wasn't WA on either of those sites. SSB requires a line be available at at least 20% of offshores, and BettingTalk simplifies things by requiring that a side or total be available at either Greek or Bookmaker to be posted. I've never seen Alf or Fezzik criticized for posting sides or totals that were available at Greek or Bookmaker; Fezzik was only criticized for using $300 Greek props to pad his record but that's something different entirely.

When I've seen Sharp Sports Betting and Betting Talk post WA lines for their handicappers for years with hardly any arguments, and then I see Alf posting lines that hadn't existed at any major offshore for many hours, if not days, and subscribers point that out left and right and have their posts deleted for their trouble and their comps revoked, it isn't hard to tell who's posting at WA lines and who's inflating his record.