In cash games Is it similar to tourneys where basically you should limp from early to mid position with a low-mid pp if you have 45x bbs or more? And if someone raises you can and should call up to 1/15th of your stack cause you have set value?

How about in a full ring game?

no, don't limp, just don't

In 6max, you should open raise all pps from any position.

And in general you should call a raise with all pps, there are exceptions tho.

Calling off 1/15 of your stack doesn't usually give you the right odds to be calling for set value unless you are playing a major fish.

You stack is just one factor. You have to consider the likelihood of getting paid off too. So, the villain has to be ultra aggro or very nitty to set mine.

If you are a otherwise tight normalish player and you limp/call preflop, it's going to look a lot like set mining to anyone competent and they will adjust accordingly.

does anyone really make money with 22-44 utg?

yes..

yeah

I don't think one should raise any PP, there's different views on this but I think folding 22-44 in EP is fine as well as a default.
Vs people who open wide 3betting small PPs is probably better in a vacuum than calling because your implied odds aren't good (unless they barrell like crazy in which case...embrace variance and make some crazy calldowns and get bluffed into on all streets when you flop a set).

Depends on table dynamics/villains etc but yeah by default you can't do much wrong by opening any PP for a raise from any position.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...mining-610864/

never fold pocket pairs preflop because you can flop a set.

It is funny, because I remeber posting **** like this a few years ago and getting leveled and messed with. That really annoyed me. The problem is OP that poker just isn't this simple. As you get better you understand many different factors.

Say tightish UTG raises and we flat 44 in the CO both 100bb deep. Are we set mining? Yes in a way.

Now we miss our set and he cbets a certain board. We can raise, call, fold. This may, depending on both actions, repeat itself on the turn. Now based on our read on him, his read on us, timing, sizing, etc. We can decide on the turn.

This is what most cash players love about playing somewhat deep and one reason we laugh at tourny players.

Clowntables post is also A+, but that is par for the course.

when you kno your gonna hit your set

Oh and there are 6max tables that I fold 22-44 UTG, some that I raise, but non that I have ever limped first in UTG.

Why 22-44 and not 55-77?

Surely we're not winning many hands at showdown with an UI 55.

you're on the wrong side of a set over set a lot less often.

at a 6max table y couldnt you limp under the gun....? obviously hand values increase being that its not full ring and a lot of players might limp here with a monster or with suited connectors depending on the situation. If the villain in middle or late position raises see how many callers you get and you could even 3bet and put a squeeze on. Its all speculation depending on your table image as well as type of player that would be raising. I still am a believer that too many of us low stakes players try to make something happen out of nothing and force the issue to much. Listen at the lower stakes abc poker is going to be the most profitable because although the fish are getting smarter they arent capable of understanding your plays. Value bet and trap.

limping might be better than folding. maybe.

raising is nearly always better than limping. like 99% of the time.

The problem I have with limping it, is that it doesn't really fit a good strategy for EP play. You can't just limp 22-55 because that is a good way to play those specific hands. It has to be part of a balanced strategy. In other words, when you limp 22-55 what are you trying to set up?

For instance, when we open raise T9s UTG, it's not because that hand is profitable in that spot, it's so our range doesn't just include strong hands. We add other weak hands into our range, to make our stronger hands even more profitable.

Back to limping...so, we limp 22-55, weak hands...so we have to be doing it to setup more profitability off our strong hands in the future. But, do we really want to be open limping our strong hands? Do we want to be limp/calling our strong hands when we do open limp? Or is our play designed to setup a limp/raise range that isn't just QQ+/AK+?

Ok, let's assume we now have this limp/raise dynamic setup. Is it really going to be more profitable than just opening UTG, getting called by the donks, or 3bet from aggros?

Above I'm talking about 6max. I only play full ring live, but I will limp hands from EP, and I will limp/raise early in sessions with SCs and other weak hands to setup doing the same later with strong hands. But that's full ring...

Thats good insight devinlake i guess i really didnt think of it as an overall "strategy".
I was coming from the basis that its unlikely were going to flop a set, yet if we do especially at this level your going to get paid the majority of the time. So i want to see a flop as cheap as possible without advertising i have a small to mid pocket pair. Example, blinds are .50/1 and we limp from utg with 44. Mp raises to 4 dollars its folded to you. You call with 44 out of position completely miss the flop and it costs you 4 dollars on a weak check fold. Example 2, you raise to 2.50 utg with 44, mp calls heads up to flop pot is 6.50. Flop comes out J high and you c-bet half pot and he raises you and lyou ose more money with same outcome you lost the hand. Now lets say you flop a set in either of these examples your going to get paid if hes above the board or has top pair. I guess my strategy would be that with the implied odds at this level on these sorts of hands from early position its makes up for the terrible odds against flopping a set. If we raise from utg or ep its going to give us better info as to our oppenents hands but i feel playing these hands to aggressively will have a negative ev....

hmm...I thought about this some more during class today lol I think its best to mix it up. Limp or raise dont be predictable. Ill tell you what limping with monsters from ep or utg has always made me more money so far the open raising the likelihood to just get flat called is so much greater than someone not being able to control throwing in some sort of raise ...(full ring)

Its very situational and depends on your table. If your table is hyperaggressive limp a favorable percentage with monsters then you can flat call or reraise from ep or utg. If your table is loose donks play it safe "abc" bet your hands dont get to cute so you can put them on some sort of hand range when they flat call or reraise.

Wtf @ this thread.