Until recently, you could 4bet with position a light 3better of a certain type (mediocre to fairly good -- they just have to get out of line 3betting.) often enough to show a pretty good profit. Lately though, I see a bunch of these guys flatting the 4bet oop and I just can't figure it out why they are.

Is there a new vid out there/hot new strategy that I don't know about?


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $110.90
MP: $50.95
CO: $122.05
Hero (BTN): $421.30
SB: $139.25
BB: $173.60

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with 6 K
3 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB raises to $9, 1 fold, Hero raises to $28, SB calls $19

Flop: ($57.00) Q A K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero...

check obv,

but I'm with you, people are calling 4bets oop like crazy. generally, I think it's pretty awful

Probably there were a couple of mid/high stakes videos where someone called a 4bet OOP for various reasons that made it fine. Then some monkeys see the video and totally misapply the concept. Then some more monkeys see the first group of monkeys do it and decide they should do it. Repeat ad nauseam.

I think whitelime said something to the effect of "I don't mind calling with a suited connector oop to a small 4 bet in this situation..." in one of his videos. yeah it's annoying but i guess either make your 4 bets larger or tighten up your range.

amazing how the games have changed the last 2 years.

why is it annoying?

adjusting=more profit

just 4 bet shove

with these stacks? no way.

anyways, yeah i've seen alot of flatting oop and IP of 4-bets these days. it happened twice actually today against the same opponent within 30 hands (he flatted the first with ?? and the second one with KQo).

and check the flop op

It's all the rage i hear.

Personally i find more often than not, it's someone with a scared AK that doesn't want to stack off with no pair and wants to see if he connects first before sticking it in.

4bet shoving is something you should have in your arsenal, but it should be more for when you're OOP in certain situations like when you're getting raped w 3bets and it also serves a meta purpose, say you have a couple big fish on your right so you don't want to pick up, and you want to tell the lag on your left 'fk off, you're not going to get away w 3betting my opens with the top 40% of your range'

It is AK a lot in my experience.

AQo, 89s, QTo..need i say more ?

We checked this one down and he showed TT.

I've also seen AQos, JJ, JTs, J8s(!).... and quite a bit of no-showdown, so I'm still trying to figure it out.

One thing I've yet to see is AK/KK/AA.

Wow, there is no magic answer for what range different players are calling 4bets OOP with. I'm shocked.

Yah, I get that part.


Okay, what's surprising is that these are your fairly normal tags with 100bb. Not your 35/12 types. Not shorties. Sure, they do this, but it's normal for them to do crazy stuff.

I'm talking your 20/17 or 18/15 types. And their motivation I should be able to figure out and profit from it. I just don't get it in this situation.

I guess they're worried about getting bluffed off a semi-premium hand and think they have odds to call because they've watched vids and mimic the moves/actions of good players, but actually have put no work into the why's -- so they somehow think they have the odds to call.

And sometimes they're actually right against my specific hand, if not my range, and this is when it gives me conniption fits post flop.

And it is new. I don't think I've seen so many 4bet flats in the past 4 months as I've seen in the past 3 weeks.

I don't think I've ever flatted a 4bet OOP in my life unless maybe I was super deep and it was a small 4bet with history.

I have had success putting in 4bet shoves in my arsenal lately...

For hands I remembered that show downed when they flatted a 4bet OOP, I remember 99-QQ / AK / AQs ...QQ surprised the hell out of me actually.

For this hand in OP, I'd probably bet for value on the turn or river...I get curiosity calls a lot.

this is all good news isnt it? just re-adjust

Man I would love ppl to start employing these tactics in my games. I can't sew how it can be profitable long-term unless you're a soulreader.

Also, Isn't that 4 bet a touch large(more than 3x)

guy did it to me today, it was AK fwiw. but yeah i'm seeing it a lot, and I don't get it.

Anyone who flats a 4b OOP at SSNL with something other than AA/KK sucks at poker imo. And, flatting OOP with those two hands also sucks.

Happened again today in a short session. Villain was a robo-3better tag (at least I thought so at the time), 9%+ 3bet stat.


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $102.00
UTG: $100.00
Hero (CO): $113.70
BTN: $99.00
SB: $42.35

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with K 4
1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, BB raises to $11, Hero raises to $26, BB calls $15

Flop: ($52.50) T 7 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $30

flatting the 3b sucks there if you didn't open on the btn but I think it's better than 4betting.

maybe my image to all other regs is that of a huge monkeyspew chimp, but don't you guys find you get 5bet shoved on w a reasonably wide range when you 4bet IP? cause I think most regs realize you're flatting AA/KK/QQ to a 3b IP.

lol flatting with TT there is so ****ing bad

Then...um....why the **** are you flatting with monsters lol?

ran into AA on a Axx board today when I 4b he called AK no good

HU i've seen basically everything, fr its QQ/JJ/AK a lot, 6max is in between not quite as random, but still a lot of wtf hands