The Well: mrTEA (summary 01/02/07)

I just had my first 100k month and 2p2 has been pretty good to me so I thought this would be a good opportunity to give back. I also thought today was Thursday and was freaking out because I have a big paper due on Friday, but now that it's only Wednesday I got a whole 38 hours. If there's not a lot of interest no big deal, mods feel free to lock/delete the thread.

wat stakes u play?
Your history?
How old are you?

As of right now i play anywhere from 3/6 to 25/50. I've always been pretty fluid with the limits I play. I'm 18 years old, freshman at UCSD.

I first started playing poker about 3.5ish years ago when my soccer team went down to San Luis Obispo for a tournament. This was around the time Moneymaker won and everyone thought they were the [censored] at poker because they saw Phil Ivey on tv. Anyway I flopped 2 pair with J4o and J7o my first 2 hands so I thought I was crazy good at poker. We continued playing a weekly home game and I started getting raped so I bought Hellmuth’s Play Poker like the Pros. After that I started playing the Top Ten Hands + suited connectors and c-betting I started winning and thought I was the [censored] again even though I didn’t know how what to do on the turn and river because Hellmuth just told me to go with my instincts. I didn’t really know anything so my instincts were usually wrong. But I was winning so I was Hellmuth’s #1 fan, calling him the best player in the world and stupid stuff like that.

After people started catching on to my strategy I started losing again because people were floating me (I didn’t know what to do on later streets) so I started losing again. This time I bought Hold’em Poker for Advanced Players thinking it was for No Limit and I kept getting owned because I was peeling every flop hoping for backdoor flush draws. A little over a year ago I found the 2p2 website, but I didn’t’ actually start playing online until about 6 months ago, when my friend was busto and had to pay a gambling debt so I gave him $50 for Pokerstars money. I almost bustoed it too. I was down to about 12 bucks when some guys started messing around at NL10 and just started pushing every hand. I got AK a couple times and BOOM now I’m robusto.

Advice to fight through a downswing? Ideas about shot taking?

With downswings, the best advice is to tighten up. When you're on a downswing, you're on perma-tilt and often start playing way too many hands. You also think people are out to get you when your cbets get raised and you start getting 3-bet a lot. Don't try to play back when 5 different people are 3 betting you, as you don't really have much reason to believe any1's 3betting you light.

I take shots when I'm running well/playing well. I try not to play high when I'm on tilt.

where do you live?
some influencial posters in your development as a player?
any poker coaches?
thoughts on the games today and perhaps how they are getting more difficult?
toughest opponent (s)?
your favorite live poker experience/hand?

There are way too many to name, but diablo, KKF, cero_z, GOG, matt flynn, ml4l. I also owe a lot of my game to the guys in IRC like mason, jfish, cts, kerpowski, flamez, triumph, and MDMA.

Yeah games are definately more difficult now than they were 6 months ago I guess. I don't really have any PartyPoker experience though so I don't really have any idea in terms of comparisons.

Straate, tcorbin
I never really stay in games with a ton of good regulars though. I think game selection is my strongest asset.

Live Poker sucks. Im pretty sure my vpip is like 50 because I get so bored. But I did have set over set vs one guy but he sucked out and hit quads for about 1k. Hopefully I have better stories after this weekend.

What are somethings besides playing tight and in position that a player can do to avoid marginal situations?(sorry this question is kinda broad, maybe you could just talk about marginal situations)

Remember that when situations are close (between calling and folding) your action doesn't really matter that much.

The most marginal situation I can think of right now are checking flops in reraised pots when you flopped top pair good kicker. For instance when button raises and you 3bet ATs in the BB and flop comes AQ4 you check call a bet, and on the turn you check call another bet.

There's certainly places for plays like these but make sure you're not inducing bluffs that you're gonna have trouble calling later.

post a memorable hand?
post a good bluff you made?
post a good bluff call you made?
and explain your thoughts?
Whats a day in the life of mrTEA like?

memorable: http://www.pokerhand.org/?751922

bluff: Theres a fine line between good and ******ed in this one but...

FR 25/50

Mp raises to 150, I 3bet button w/ J3s to 500

Flop: A T 2 rainbow

mp checks, I bet 750

Turn: some blank

mp checks, I bet 1500, mp folds

This was purely based on his bet timing. I also thought it was likely that he would peel the flop w/ less than an ace.

A day in the life of mrTEA is pretty boring. Ive been studying a ton lately because of midterms coming up. My luckbox has also been on overdrive this month so I've been playing a lot.

Can you explain your whole thought process during a hand?
How to get better at hand reading?

Handreading is more an art than a science. You take into account vpip/pfr, and how you think a player acts in this situation. Does it matter to him what position you raised from? What hands does he donkbet on this flop texture? Is he getting pissed that I raised 4 times in a row? There's a lot of information available, you just gotta dig it up.

During a hand I try to be constantly aware of my image, and how a player will react to that image based on our history. Once you have a reasonable understanding of how your opponent acts in these situations you can act accordingly.

Daily shedule? Why arnt you loggign 12hour days and earning milllions whilst you can?

I game select more than most of the high stakes players playing. Though when I started I wanted to become the best poker player alive (i.e. aba) its not as important to me anymore. I don't see durrrr, antonius, stinger, OMGclayaiken, and cts and think "damn I really want to play with the best."
The stakes also scare the [censored] outta me. Losing 20k hurts a lot more than winning 20k could make up for.

Life time profit?
Daily shedule?
How many hours are your sessions?
Also, Do you think someone can follow in your .25/.50 > $100 000 month in 6 months?

Im pretty close to 200k.

I've fallen into really bad sleeping patterns. I'll go to bed at like 5AM and wake up at 9 or so because I have a mandatory attendance class. I'll take a nap whenever I'm tired and play poker when I'm in the mood or bored.

I play until I start playing bad, I'm unstuck, or I start taking bad beats. Sometimes I 1-table 25-50, others I 9 table 3/6. It just depends on my mood.

Advice on playing against a freguent 3 better..Both when I am in position and OOP..

When OOP I tend to tighten up my raising range. To counter from getting too predictable I open up my 4 betting range, especially if I feel I'm going to get owned post flop. Also Try to balance your game. Though its not necessarily that important at ssnl, it's a big part of getting better (a lot of these ideas are in Strassa's posts).

There are quite a few successful players who don't really 4bet, but they're postflop game is A+.

In position I'll occasionally float if I think the guy is getting out of line, or raise the flop. However, don't immediately call all his 3bets with 67s because you saw CTS do it.

lol by 100k month i thought you meant hands..nope you meant dollars..
stupidity aside, what advice could you give to me, a struggling 200nl ex-sng monkey.

I think a lot of SNG players have trouble folding top pair hands on later streets. When you're about to call just ask yourself what you beat that plays this way and the action is often pretty simple.

Also if you're playing a bunch of tables, reduce them for awhile and make sure you're thinking through every play you make. Every decision you make in the hand will affect your play on a later street.

opinions/thoughts/comments on light 3 betting in general?
how do you see the state of online poker in 3 years time?
do you like tea?

3 betting light is important the higher up you go as it keeps you from being unpredictable. However, a lot of people take it too far (I did at one point). Since AJFenix's "opening up your eyes and your game" post though, the game texture has changed enough that I don't do it as much. Players have begun to adjust better to 3betting ranges and frequencies, even to the point of expecting a bluff more often than a legitimate hand. So of course, you have to adjust accordingly.
I have no idea where poker will be in 3 years. Hopefully stars/full tilt stick around for us.

I got my name because I used to play counterstrike under the alias mrT (like the A team guy). I was killing everyone one day so some guy changed his name to "having fun with mrTEA." I thought it was cool so I just took the name.

I'm pretty indifferent to tea itself.

ok another question.
i get bored of poker really fast and cant log enough hands to get any significant results. how do i get over this so i can make some real skrilla?

I have the same problem. For me, the answer was to take a break for a couple days and only play when I really want to play. I also play when I don't have anything else to do and considering the alternative (studying) the choice is pretty clear.

What do you think the most important skill a poker player can have is?
Any tips for an inspiring poker player? How to get better? Play more hands? Post on here a lot?
What are you studying in school? Why are you still going? I can`t imagine that you need to get a job after making a tonne of money in poker?

It's pretty close between handreading and bankroll management imo. Handreading is pretty self explanatory and there's been a lot of good BR threads (I think AJmargarine started one awhile ago). The only thing I can add is that a lot of people take it way too far. I think you're hurting you're potential a lot if you're playing 1/2 with 30k.

Everyone tilts to some extent, and being able to limit it is really important also.

Again, don't play too many tables when you're starting out. Make sure you think about your decisions carefully and how they affect the future decisions you will make.

I'm a freshman math/econ major. Yea I'm sure a job will be lame, but I'd give a lot to be in a situation similar to Strassa's.

What do you do in general when you 3bet TT-KK preflop oop and a single overcard falls? Check-call or lead and why?

I generally lead OOP until reason to do otherwise. In terms of check calling, I don't like to guess where a player is at in the hand unless I have a very good read of bet timing and preflop calling range in position. Bet/folding allows you much more information than check-calling. As I pointed out earlier, you don't want to be inducing bluffs that you can't call later.


When I have KK in position and an A flops I pretty much always check the flop. You can balance this out by checking the smaller Aces you're 3 betting. I generally won't bet, but I will call at least one street if he bets. That way you can keep the pot manageable. Of course sometimes you'll have to pick off a bluff on the river when he pushes depending on your read.

What type of hands are you calling 3bets with if you believe they're 3betting light.
What would you 4bet, when and why?
ATs? AKs? QQ? 67s? 99?

OOP i'll call AK/QQ/99 and occasionally the other 2 if I feel I have a good read on their postflop play and can bluff them out of pots. Calling with ATs and 67s are also good for metagame if you happen to hit. You can put opponents on sick tilt. I push over 3 bets a lot w/ AK also (of course you have to push AA/KK there too sometimes).

You can 4bet with any of those hands, though I often want their cbet money w/ QQ.

1. when you moved up what was the key thing/adjustment you made to win consistently or become a winning player at that level?
A: mving from 50NL to 100NL==
B: mving from 100NL to 200NL==
C: mving from 200NL to 400NL==
D: mving from 200NL to 400NL==
2. What hands do you normally call a standard 3bet OOP with?
A From a TAG
B From a LAG
3. What hands do you normally call a standard 3bet w/ position with?
A From a TAG
B from a LAG

50 to 100nl wasn't a big change when I came up. There were plenty of ******s to take money from even though I remember Clayton 10 tabling.

100 to 200nl was a little tougher as there's more regs. When I first move up I played a little tighter and opened my game once I saw leaks. A lot of 200nl players call way too much so aggressive value betting is very important. Build pots so that you can value bet larger on the later streets and a lot of these players are gonna think "pot odds! I call!" when in reality, you're bet sizing forced them to make a ton of mistakes that they didn't know they were making. Remember also to think of the relative strength of your hand in terms of the board texture and action. On a lot of boards your equity with 1 pair hands isn't really that great, so folding shouldn't be a big deal.

The transition to 400 was tougher, more extreme version of the above. As players get better, you have to get better too. Don't think that you have to totally revamp your game for every limit though. Of course you will have to make adjustments, but don't start playing crazy because there's more money on the table.

I don't call a lot of 3bets oop. TT+ probably vs a TAG. Against a LAG it's probably similar, except I 4bet more.

In position I'm calling almost any pair vs both. Against a TAG you can fold/push/call AK depending on your read. vs a LAG I'm pretty much calling all pairs because I want a cbet from him. With the smaller pairs you can raise/float/fold (folding mostly of course).

Was there a "moment of Clarity"..By this I means was there a principle that once you understood you KNEW you could beat the game..Or any other confidence builder that made you realize you knew you could beat the game

A lot of players don't steal enough / aren't aggressive enough on the button. When you keep raising the button people start getting pissed off and 3betting light or call too many hands. Then you can take advantage of position and/or tighten up and start value betting stronger hands. This is good for metagame, as it makes you look a lot more aggressive than you may actually be.

What type of game do you play for 6max (vpip/pfr)?
What spots do you typically second barrell ? Third barrell? Any examples?
How big do you think variance is in SSNL?

I'm about 21/17.

Good second barreling spots are when high cards come, or the board is low cards and the turn doesn't really change the texture, though this may not be a good spot in SSNL.

3 9 7 K is a pretty good board to 2nd barrel.

I 2nd barrel a lot on boards like 3358 also if villain is a decent player, though I wouldn't if he was a station. Players that realize their hand is only a bluff catcher or are afraid of calling a bet on the river are good candidates to 2 barrel here.

The biggest downswing I had at nl200 was about 10 buyins though quite a bit was bad play. Variance probably factors in a lot more now that the games are tougher.

tea,
how fast did you move up, bankroll wise? did you ever move down?
what's your longest losing streak, and how did you cope?

When taking shots I moved down a couple times between 100 and 200 and 200 and 400. I play a pretty wide range of limits though, so I never really see anything as "moving down." If I lose a couple buyins at 10-20 or 25-50 though I think "[censored] now I gotta grind."

I have kept myself from playing in a couple good games though because I wanted to make sure I wasn't addicted to the action. I decided to play 3-6 for like a week straight because I didn't want to "need" the 5k game because I'm still obviously under rolled for it.


bankroll wise I took shots at 200nl w/ about 3500 or so and moved down if I hit 3k or so. I didn't play 400nl until I had about 10k. The 3-6 game on stars wasn't very popular during the summer so I played 3/6 and 5/10 about the same time with about 40k.

Again, I've been pretty loose with the limits I play, so it really wasn't about the bankroll I had, but whether or not I felt ready to play in the game. I also game select my shots carefully.

Just a few months ago you were grinding 1/2 and 2/4; now you're playing as high as 25/50 and making $100k in a month? Was this a jfish-like streak of running perma-hot or was there (unlike jfish's story) actual skill involved? In short, wtf happened?

I dunno around Holiday season all the games got super fishy so I started sitting in 10-20 games. I saw the same fish play 25-50 and BOOM. I like to think I'm very in tune with my luckbox.

whats your worst downswing? do you feel that your as good of a player as the top NL players (durrr/cts/aba/etc)?

about 20k, not sure how many buy ins because I play various limits. I'm nowhere near as good as any of the above players. Knowing/realizing this is pretty important, because if you don't you become like Grimstarr and start playing BLD heads up .

longest breakeven stretch?
what were your winrates at 100NL, 200NL, and 400NL?
what would you do here http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post9002304

I didn't have PT when I was playing 200 and I didn't have it for a bit of 400. I usually 9 tabled 400nl @ 4ptbb/100 over about 100k hands.

Call and re-evaluate turn.

Do you c-bet with nothing against habitual callers.
I mean against a guy who bets when checked to and calls almost all bets.Cause if I start stopping c-betting he will take a lot of money away from me.Let also think he is not braindead.
So if I have not c-betted for like in 10 hands he wont call this time with air.
What to do against these guys?

cbetless or double barrel more or tighten up your opening range

some tips for SSNL players?

SSNL players should focus on value betting because that's gonna be where you're making the majority of your money regardless of the stakes you play. Also realize that you don't need to pull huge moves to be a winning poker player. Even a nit like me can win a nice chunk o' change.

Assume TAGs in each situation.
How would you play against someone who calls every 3bet and CRAI every flop?
What adjustments do you make when someone seems to be auto-3betting from the blinds to your BTN/CO raises?

Tighten up your 3betting range to hands you're willing to get it in with.

once they auto3bet tighten up your range. Also consider 4betting the button because a lot of people don't give you credit for a hand.

skill difference between 5/10 and 10/20 and 25/50?
how many hands had you played at 3/6 and 5/10 before you moved up?
thanks homie, keep livin the dream


5/10 is pretty tough to win at on stars right now. I can't open up a table without seeing 5 TAGS 12 tabling. Of course this is exploitable, but its way harder to win off nitty 12 tablers than bad loose players.

10/20 game is substantially more aggro postflop, though I don't see a lot of 3betting pf. There's a lot more flop bluff raises and check raising going on. Of course, when you find the fish then its not a big deal.

25-50 I game select pretty heavily because games are usually 9 handed with durrr and a bunch of others playing. But there's tricky TAGs, good LAGs, and ****** fish all in the same place. Just gotta find the player you can exploit the best and run well of course.

I'm not really sure where I "moved up" because I tend to play higher and take shots when I feel that I'm running/playing well/see a fish and lower when I'm not/don't see fish.

What's your biggest losing hand? as in ptbb/100.
how light do you 4bet? obv its metagame dependent but have you ever shoved 67s, A5o, 44? etc?

I'm down lifetime with AKs now because of the pots I've lost at 25/50. My biggest ptbb/100 loser is JTs.

56s is the lightest I've ever 4bet pushed. IIRC it was more tilt than a good read though.

what is the #1 skill a winning 2-4 player must develop to become a winning 5-10+ player?

I think the biggest difference is how often people pay off value bets. Players can win at 2-4 purely because they size their bets better than others, but at 5-10 paying off river value bets happens substantially less from regulars. So the better you read hands the more successful you'll be (obviously).

Regarding small pairs, last night you said you raised any pairs from any position. Assuming 100BB stacks, you have 44 raise to 4 bb, and unknown in LP RR to 14 bb. You're always folding here right? At which PP is your cutoff before you start calling? (99/tt/jj)? and are you 3betting those or calling?
Even vs tags, your folding most PPs to a 3bet when you're OOP, correct?


the cutoff is about TT. The reraising range depends a lot on the player and my read on his frequencies.

Yes I'm folding most PPs (99 and lower) to a 3bet unless I decide to 4bet.

when u speak of getting paid off on value bets as competition gets harder, do you mean hand reading as far as havin a good idea when opponent has like mid pair and sizing accordingly or when he has air and will bet if checked to, all those things that add up

I meant it in the most general way possible. 5/10 players have a better idea of when they're ahead and when they're beat, how much an opponent can call, etc...

do you tilt easily? do you move up to chase losses ever?
you seem pretty responsible from what you've said...
do you ever play BJ? if so, most you've lost?

a bad beat by itself doesn't bother me unless the pot is really big. I go on tilt more when I'm carded dead for an hour and 24s starts lookin real good. I also tilt when I lose every pot for an hour straight.

I move up to chase losses sometimes. I've had mixed results, but losing after you've moved up to chase losses hurts so much more that I hope I don't do it anymore.

Never played BJ, though I have flipped tcorbin for 1k. I think i'm like 1/4 lifetime in flips.

One thing that im pretty sure almost ssnl regular does, but I think high stakers doesnt:
If a regular is floating me, he will bet turn, but if he has a legit non monster hand, he will check turn behind.
If flop is rag and turn comes an Ace and a regular second barrel, he will second barrel with air, but if he has a hand like AK, he will check.
Do u guys try to balance it?

I don't think you can really make a blanket statement like that. Players can be betting a wide range of hands there, sets/ big draws/ bluffs/top pair.

On an Ace turn you can be betting and checking depending on your read of the other player and how he views your turn bets.

You talked a bit about balancing your play as you move up.
Can you elaborate a bit more about this?
I presume you mean by balancing your play that you don't have a small exploitable range in certain spots (for instance if a tag coldcalls in the bb and c/r the flop his range is pretty much sets/air -small pp's-) but most importantly how to counter this. I have a very flexible style and I usually have a wide range in a lot of spots, yet I can't seem to balance my coldcalling range especially in the blinds (3-bet a lot in the blinds, and fold almost everything to a raise excepth 22--99) and I feel this is pretty exploitable (even though I do steal the pot with a unimproved PP occasionally I still think its to easy to put me on a very tight hand range that allows the villain to play perfect).

The same also goes for coldcalling IP, I very rarely do it excepth with small-medium PP and if I feel frisky a suited connector/QKs/AJs type of hand and again this allows smart opponents to narrow down my range a lot.

So any suggestions on how to balance this, because I don't think I am good enough to play OOP with a marginal hand in a raised pot all that often (so I just end up folding it preflop) and without the lead I often feel a bit lost...

My 3betting range in the blinds is 22+, Axs+, KQ, and some suited connectors based on game flow. This allows me to take the betting lead, while not making my range too exploitable. However, I also fold these hands quite a bit in the blinds as you often don't have implied odds OOP when you hit your big hand.

If i decide to call with a pair in the blinds I'm checking the flop most times, as I'm mostly in a WA/WB situation, and mix in a c/r bluff every once in awhile.

You can also lead in these situations if your opponent knows you're capable of a b3b.

In terms of cold calling you have to be able to bluff raise a few flops and "represent a set" so that you don't get run over.

Someone already made a similar question, but i would like more imput in this situation.
Someone opens in CO and u 3bet with TT. Flop comes Qc 7s 6s
U always cbet here?
I find this spots really hard to play. I hate folding to a raise in a board like this or check folding turn.

75% probably

A lot of this will depend on how much you've been 3betting before and what you think his c/r frequency is, and whether or not he's capable of folding.

If I can't get a good feel of any of these answers calling is fine.

How often do you put someone on AK to justify a marginal all-in call/push on the flop?
If you have AK UI, how often do you put someone on AQ UI to justify a marginal all-in call/push on the flop?


Probably too many times. But remember that handreading isn't about putting a player on a hand you can beat.

With AK, I basically decide if he's capable of making these moves w/ smaller Aces even though you don't really need to most times considering the dead money.

I've noticed when I'm tilting though, I tend to put players on hands I can beat just so I can call.


i'm curious, is every decision made at 200 nl pretty easy to you? ie when to bluff, when to call down, etc?

the last time I played 200nl I had trouble taking the stakes seriously and I started bluffing all the time. From what I've heard the game has gotten substantially tougher though.

The biggest difference between stakes is the ability of other players to put you in difficult situations. The vast majority of 200nl players don't do this as well, so the decisions are easier.

All fold to button who raises.Button is very loose.If hero 3-bets from the blinds he always calls.And when hero c-bets,
after the 3-bet, he always raises.But if hero just calls villain starts to play normally.
So how do you play 22-66 against these kind of guys?
Should I just fold these hands preflop?

This player is killing you postflop so folding is fine. Also consider calling and c/r bluffing the flop.

Don't bother defending your blinds though. Good players will absolutely run over you.

What do you consider a good table? Is 4 regulars and one fish enough ? Or at least with position on the fish? Can you give a few examples of good / playable table textures?
Do you use a HUD? If so, how much does it factor into your decisions? If you don't use one, why not?

You only need one fish to make the game and often a reg that's tilting or getting out of line can make the game also. However I will leave if I'm on the fish's immediate right. I'm usually the first to leave if the game is 5 other regs passing around blinds though.

I use a HUD but it's only to identify fish quickly or if I'm playing a bunch of tables and can't pay attention to individual hands as much.

All fold to hero(otb)who raises and big blind calls.No matter what the flop is villain always leads.
If hero raises he always calls.And mostly likely he also calls a turn bet.If hero just calls he bets the turn.But he is not a complete moron.When he has not seen hero do nothing
but folding he will fold to a c-bet.
Any ideas? Start being more tight preflop?

I dont think I've ever encountered a player like this, but you're I think your broadway cards increase in value a lot. Start hitting top pair and value betting.

If you were a BRAND new NL player right now who played about 15k hands of 100nl with a small winrate and 20k hands of 200nl with a 5ptbb winrate, what would you start doing to move up and increase your earn the most? I guess I'm asking if I should try to aggressivel move up, or be more passive since I haven't really played a lot of hands yet.

A lot of this depends on your own comfort level. When I first started my goal was to move up as quickly as possible, so I was pretty aggressive with my bankroll. However, I did make the jump to 400nl with about 10k, and moved down if I got below 8k.


How old were you when you started online poker?

18. I'll be 19 in march.