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TP line on BB vs SB 100NL Zoom TP line on BB vs SB 100NL Zoom

09-20-2013 , 05:32 PM
PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 173.05 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
SB: 304.27 BB (VPIP: 26.91, PFR: 21.82, 3Bet Preflop: 11.22, Hands: 565)
Hero (BB): 281.81 BB
UTG: 114.77 BB (VPIP: 23.24, PFR: 19.38, 3Bet Preflop: 9.23, Hands: 1,915)
MP: 222.88 BB (VPIP: 20.91, PFR: 16.86, 3Bet Preflop: 5.60, Hands: 884)
CO: 112.5 BB (VPIP: 16.47, PFR: 14.12, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 89)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q T

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) J Q 5
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (6 BB, 2 players) 6
SB bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

River: (14 BB, 2 players) 4
SB checks, Hero bets 7 BB, SB calls 7 BB

I usually bet there on flop with air to take the pot down but I felt like I should check/back since I actually hit top pair so if I don't bet to protect then I might look like I'm bluffing on later streets? With this line, I thought I might be able to get looked up by something like Ace high.

What do you think?
09-20-2013 , 05:47 PM
If you take this line, I think you should go bigger on the river. That being said, I think some regs will call 3 pretty light here. I guess it depends on villain's betting tendencies and your image.
09-20-2013 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyGooch
If you take this line, I think you should go bigger on the river. That being said, I think some regs will call 3 pretty light here. I guess it depends on villain's betting tendencies and your image.
Yeah, I think Ace high only is too narrow. Also, because we are deep he might even play more careful than usual. I should thought about that one.
09-20-2013 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatCarl
[b]

I usually bet there on flop with air to take the pot down but I felt like I should check/back since I actually hit top pair so if I don't bet to protect then I might look like I'm bluffing on later streets? With this line, I thought I might be able to get looked up by something like Ace high.

What do you think?
Pretty counter intuitive reasoning
09-20-2013 , 06:09 PM
If you feel you wont get exploited for it, probably fine, would rather do it with kq/aq though.

But in general you dont want to apply such logic because it is flawed and if you have ambition playing higher, youll need better strategies/logic. Checking back TP here is more a specific adjustment I would make rather than a default strategy.
09-20-2013 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzyphantom
Pretty counter intuitive reasoning
Right, my mistake, if I bet air then I should bet top pair also, I think I'm high.

So, only factor is not betting top pair for value/protection for deception and if that's the case then I should over bet turn and river right?
09-20-2013 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DjuNKeLL
If you feel you wont get exploited for it, probably fine, would rather do it with kq/aq though.

But in general you dont want to apply such logic because it is flawed and if you have ambition playing higher, youll need better strategies/logic. Checking back TP here is more a specific adjustment I would make rather than a default strategy.
Yeah, I wanna play higher someday but all I can get for now is prescription vicodin and some weeds if I'm lucky.

He checks wet flop too so he didn't wear rubber either so that's more of a reason to check/back flop?
09-22-2013 , 01:51 PM
I like the check back on the flop. Usually on wettish boards like this when I see the PFR check to us he polarizes his range to flopped monsters or he's folding. However even on this wet a board I expect all of those monster hands to bet with the flush and straight draws. Also I never expect a hand like KQ, AQ, KK or AA to be checking this board. When he checks to you I would think your hand is not just good but far ahead like 90% of the time and I don't mind a check back when he's folding so often to extract value later. On the turn its a fairly standard call and then when he checks river like everyone else said I'd like a little bigger bet like maybe $11? Just because our line looks a bit strange and I think you'll gey looked up pretty light by 2nd or 3rd pairs.

iz da best "flydonkfly"
09-22-2013 , 02:00 PM
I like the check back on the flop. Usually on wettish boards like this when I see the PFR check to us he polarizes his range to flopped monsters or he's folding. However even on this wet a board I expect all of those monster hands to bet with the flush and straight draws. Also I never expect a hand like KQ, AQ, KK or AA to be checking this board. When he checks to you I would think your hand is not just good but far ahead like 90% of the time and I don't mind a check back when he's folding so often to extract value later. On the turn its a fairly standard call and then when he checks river like everyone else said I'd like a little bigger bet like maybe $11? Just because our line looks a bit strange and I think you'll get looked up pretty light by 2nd or 3rd pairs.

As far as balance goes and whether we should bet our TP here because we would bet our air as well, we need to take the line that is most +ev. Balance is a result of playing the most +ev line (betting TP or check raising with air once in a hand to get our real hands paid off the other 2/3rds of the time) possible not something we do for its own sake. In this particular scenario I think betting can never be exactly a "mistake" and I def see where djunkell is coming from, however we need to take the most +ev line and balance will take care of itself. If we don't have history or think that we will be playing with this villain extensively the most +ev line is to check IMO.

iz da best "flydonkfly"

      
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