Sick spot with KK - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Sick spot with KK

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05-31-2008 , 05:26 PM

Speedlimits

banned

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,826

Absolute Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP: $239.93
CO: $172.55
Hero: $234.40
SB: $40.35
Villain (BB): $247.05
UTG: $201.10

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with K

1 fold, MP raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $13, 1 fold, BB raises to $31, 1 fold, Hero calls $18

Flop: ($66.50) T

(2 players)
BB bets $40, Hero calls $40

Turn: ($146.50) 6

(2 players)
BTN bets $176.05 all in, Hero ?

05-31-2008 , 05:32 PM

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedlimits

1 fold, MP raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $13, 1 fold, BB raises to $31, 1 fold, Hero calls $18

Flop: ($66.50) T

(2 players)
BB bets $40, Hero calls $40

Turn: ($146.50) 6

(2 players)
BTN bets $176.05 all in, Hero ?

No Reads? Without reads, I get it in on the flop. I know your deep but this could definately be JJ or QQ from some players. If you have any reads, it could sway things drasticly. I mean, this is almost always either AA, the other two kings, QQ, or JJ. Just about never anything else.

Peace

Goodie

05-31-2008 , 05:32 PM

Speedlimits

banned

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,826

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodie

What if we have QQ here, you fold?

05-31-2008 , 05:33 PM

ballin_aces55

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 650

why oh why do you not 5bet preflop???????
looks like you allowed him to hit something or his aces are still good but i still don't know if i can get away from it. you're basically hoping for QQ/JJ

05-31-2008 , 05:34 PM

Speedlimits

banned

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,826

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballin_aces55

why oh why do you not 5bet preflop???????
looks like you allowed him to hit something or his aces are still good but i still don't know if i can get away from it. you're basically hoping for QQ/JJ

that allows him to play perfectly?

05-31-2008 , 05:37 PM

Rainclouds

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,698

When his range is exactly JJ-AA then QQ is a fold and KK is a tough.
I think he has AA a lot more often than JJ and QQ here. Tbh I don't see much else in his range apart from a really stupid bluff.

I think it's a call with KK with so much in the pot already (only need to win 35% of the time) but I'm not happy about it.

edit: And fwiw I think your flat of villains 4bet pre is perfectly fine, I like it more than 5 betting.

05-31-2008 , 05:39 PM

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedlimits

What if we have QQ here, you fold?

I think QQ is definately a fold on the turn. No doubt. You only beat JJ which is the only hand that he could even possibly have that plays like this, if he's even remotely solid. And JJ would be quite a bit more unlikely than KK or AA would be.

Peace

Goodie

05-31-2008 , 05:39 PM

0evg0

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 10,451

played perfectly if you snapcall the **** out of this

you do realize he does this with QQ as often as AA, he does it with JJ once in a blue moon, and if he's aggro he does it with AK because you can only call with QQ+ and your range is much wider than QQ+ after preflop/flop

raising flop is no good because you unnecessarily narrow your range and allow him to play closer to perfect

05-31-2008 , 05:41 PM

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballin_aces55

why oh why do you not 5bet preflop???????
looks like you allowed him to hit something or his aces are still good but i still don't know if i can get away from it. you're basically hoping for QQ/JJ

5 betting this deep let's villian off the hook with anything that you want to take a flop against. If he's competant, he's folding QQ, JJ or AK to a 5 bet.

Peace

Goodie

05-31-2008 , 05:43 PM

#10

Kilillan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 13,783

5 betting is quite terrible

if he has half a brain, or unless you have a terrrible image, he's folding everything except KK and AA

05-31-2008 , 05:50 PM

#11

Speedlimits

banned

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,826

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0evg0

Ok cool, you fold QQ though right?

05-31-2008 , 05:51 PM

#12

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

reads are important here...

05-31-2008 , 06:10 PM

#13

0evg0

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 10,451

on absolute?

KK is actually much closer, QQ def a fold. on like stars/ftp QQ is v close depending on how likely he is to be decent and thus shoving AK since there are so many more combos than KK/AA

05-31-2008 , 07:18 PM

#14

TheSjaak

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0evg0

on absolute?

KK is actually much closer, QQ def a fold. on like stars/ftp QQ is v close depending on how likely he is to be decent and thus shoving AK since there are so many more combos than KK/AA

This is just so wrong. I've yet to meet the first person to shove 200bb in on a bluff and I play 1/2 on Party, which is supposedly superaggro. Everytime I have called such a bet, people had the nuts basically. Maybe at midstakes you could see AK here, but not at 100NL imo.

05-31-2008 , 07:20 PM

#15

mdm13

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,756

i think AK checks this flop a ton

05-31-2008 , 07:27 PM

#16

brettkc

adept

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,053

pls call

05-31-2008 , 07:54 PM

#17

0evg0

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 10,451

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSjaak

i stopped reading when you said "party... superaggro"

but seriously, the point isnt to answer his question based on the actual game conditions. the point is to show him the variables he needs to consider.

05-31-2008 , 08:33 PM

#18

Rainclouds

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,698

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0evg0

I do have my doubts if a decent player would ever bluff shove AK on this turn. Because I think that would be really bad, so when someone does that I wouldn't label him as 'decent'.

I mean, if hero's image isn't too bad, then after his call on the flop, his range is basically 99+, and it's a bad idea for villain to try to bluff him off any hand in that range.

05-31-2008 , 08:58 PM

#19

Speedlimits

banned

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,826

yeah i agree AK checks this flop most of the time.

well i was actually villain in this and hero snapcalled with AA (i had 88 lol)

yeah i played it bad

05-31-2008 , 09:13 PM

#20

Rainclouds

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,698

Well that explains why villain is BB on the flop and BTN on the turn lol

05-31-2008 , 09:27 PM

#21

nikinblinds

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,465

grrrr, point of thread?

05-31-2008 , 10:10 PM

#22

bilbo-san

Angry Hobbit

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 11,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedlimits

that allows him to play perfectly?

[ ] This is still true in the super aggro games of today.

Your statement is a little lol, because I bet you, like, never 5-bet bluff. But if you believed the above you would do it all the time wouldn't you?

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