Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Shove or C/C or Fold? Shove or C/C or Fold?

11-18-2012 , 12:49 AM
Do you shove river for value here? Check and call? Or fold?



    On Game, $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14607641

    CO: $222.93 (111.5 bb)
    Hero (SB): $177.40 (88.7 bb)
    BB: $16.71 (8.4 bb)
    MP2: $141.62 (70.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K Q
    MP2 folds, CO raises to $6, Hero calls $5, BB folds

    Flop: ($14) 6 6 8 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets $11, Hero raises to $33, CO calls $22

    Turn: ($80) Q (2 players)
    Hero bets $47, CO calls $47

    River: ($174) A (2 players)
    Hero bets $91.40 and is all-in, CO calls $91.40

    Spoiler:
    Results: $356.80 pot ($2.00 rake)
    Final Board: 6 6 8 Q A
    CO showed A 8 and won $354.80 ($177.40 net)
    Hero showed K Q and lost (-$177.40 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    11-18-2012 , 01:32 AM
    I think the discussion of the flop is infinitely more important than the river.
    11-18-2012 , 02:31 AM
    c/f flop

    as played fold river - can only have hands than beat you, AA KK A8 A6 fd would fold turn.
    11-18-2012 , 02:42 AM
    Fold OTF, Jam OTT coz you are on the top of your range there
    thanks to some miracle card rewarding your weird move OTF...
    Unless Villain showed some slow play before...
    11-18-2012 , 04:25 AM
    You shouldnt post results. Also why don't u have a full buy in? The flop is bad. U can do this on paired boards if u are the originally raiser and villain is raising a lot of your cbets but here I think its just bad without history.
    11-18-2012 , 12:14 PM
    What kind of player is villain? Without this information, all posts ITT are worthless imo.
    11-18-2012 , 12:39 PM
    I don't get the "gotta c/f flop" posts. Vs many,many,many players both CR and check/call are fine.
    11-18-2012 , 12:54 PM
    Yeah, think this board is fine to c/r against a lot of people as we can rep stuff on tons of turns..

    River is really villain dependent, but he cant have many Ax comboes and I think we can discount aq/kings some so don't HATE shoving river. However, not sure how many worse hands that realistically can call here (our nfd get there). I'm usually in the 'go for thin value and let villain make a mistake'-camp, but on this board I'm not convinced.

    Very torn between c/f or shoving, but think c/c sucks. Don't really see him turning much into a bluff if we check river (even tho he probably should).
    11-18-2012 , 01:11 PM
    some info about the villain wouldnt hurt, agree!

    ofc it could be a good exploitive play against certain types of opponents.
    so if villains cbets too much and folds to much against check raise his range at the river looks like maybe 8x, 99+, some turned combo draws + some FDs he didnt fold.
    i'd imagine that a riverbet shows some profit, but wouldn't consider it as a vbet.
    c/c river could be an option against the right type of opponent


    but now considering your (percieved)range and not the type of villain described above:
    with just 88 bbs and a 3x open raise do you flat a ton of suited connectors in that spot?
    and what about like 77-TT(JJ) and 8x, do you c/r the flop with these holdings?
    11-18-2012 , 03:54 PM
    I think he can call you pretty light here since every perceived draw missed
    11-18-2012 , 08:25 PM
    In respect to not knowing either of your iamges' at the table, i like your play all the way. The check raise was strong, and the Q on fourth street was money. His call on fourth street was very weak. He could only beat a bluff there. He got lucky that the Ace fell. even then, who is to say you couldn't have AQ

    The Ace on fith street definatley wasn't one you could have liked, the only thing you could have done there was check, and hope he doesn't fire enough to put you all in. He had showdown value, so he could have checked. I think he played the hand poorly. but who am i to judge.

    conclusion: Check the river and make a decision based on the bet size.
    11-19-2012 , 07:01 PM
    If i flatted KQ pre(this is SBvsBT right? the HH is a bit messed up) i normally c/c this flop, it's a bit good to turn into a c-r bluff imo, because villain will barrel your outs OTT, and you will dominate a fair amount of value hands when he does.

    Some info on villain might help, the wider he opens pre-flop, the better your river shove i think.
    Also Ac shouldn't rly help your range in villain's eyes i don't think.

          
    m