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"old school" player having trouble adjusting "old school" player having trouble adjusting

02-29-2012 , 12:25 AM
I just started playing online again after a long time away from the game.
I am shocked to see how much the game has changed. I'm only 33 but I was killing it back when all you had to do is play a TAG, fundamentally sound game and know the math to win consistently.

There are several questions I'd like to ask but I'm just going to start with this situation because it comes up the most often. (This hand did actually take place but there are also 100 others just like it that are really giving me trouble)

Cake Poker
$0.50-$1 NLH (6 max)
I just sat down and have no reads, accept that players are more aggressive than they used to be (especially in position) and that most people are Cbetting nearly 100% and Cbets are being called frequently.

I have $100. Bttn has me well covered (say $200.00)
action folds to me in the CO, I open for $6.00 with AsQd. Bttn flat calls. Blinds both fold. (pot $15.00) flop; Ks8c6d. I bet $8.00. Bttn calls. (pot $31.00) turn Ts. Action is to me and I just don't know what to do.

It seems like my Cbets are getting peeled A LOT more than they used to and more than the live games I've been playing semi regularly, especially when my opponent has position. I honestly think I'm losing money on my Cbets overall right now. It seems like every time I Cbet the flop online it gets called and if I don't have any kind of hand by the turn I check and they, like ALWAYS, stick out a big bet and take it down.

Should I be Cbetting less often?(I'm prolly around 80% heads up with my cbets)
Should I be Cbetting more money? (I'm usually betting right in between 1/2 and 2/3 pot size)
Do I need to be prepared to fire second shells a good portion of the time?
Am I maybe just getting unlucky? (I've got maybe 10 hours in and I'm actually down about $50).. I used to play and write poker full time, now I'm getting beat at small stakes internet games But maybe if I start hitting some flops/turns this whole thing will stop being such a problem for me.

It seems like the players are 100X better now online than even the live players I play with and that is just brand new to me. Is it routine now for good players to float the flop in position a super high percent of the time to steal it on the turn? Or is it just that I'm letting stupid calling stations chase overcards, back door flushes, and belly busters and then giving them permission to steal the pot on the turn?
02-29-2012 , 01:16 AM
cbet less, value bet thinner.
you will definitely need to fire more barrels. this depends a lot on villain and board texture.
02-29-2012 , 01:34 AM
Every question you asked leads me to believe you are going to get crushed even at the 100nl. Games are much harder. Gl.
02-29-2012 , 02:20 AM
Did you open to 6x pre or was it a typo?
02-29-2012 , 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPrince
Did you open to 6x pre or was it a typo?
lol i didn't even notice that.
it doesn't look like a typo. he writes out that the pot is $15.
02-29-2012 , 03:10 AM
if your opponent's fold to cbet% is 0 and you cbet/give up you have 0% chance of winning.

i'm just going to stop there, you aren't going to win at 100nl maybe try 25nl to start and watch some vid's.
02-29-2012 , 03:56 AM
if you are serious about being good i agree with pohlr96 play 25nl and figure out what people are doing these days. opening to 6x is rarely good anymore and you didn't qualify itwith there is a mondo fish in the blinds which is the only time i can think of it being good, so you are blowing it from preflop on
02-29-2012 , 04:30 AM
obv adjustments against players you describe is c-bet less often as bluffs, double and triple barrel more, go for turn x/r more often, be thinner for value... in general be prepared to fight for pots harder when you do c-bet.

6x open pre is weird, any reasoning behind it?

and yeah, probably move down and re-learn the game if you don't have a lot of money to lose.
02-29-2012 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donovan
It seems like the players are 100X better now online than even the live players I play with and that is just brand new to me.
It is pretty standard now for a $1/2 or $2/5 live game to be around the same standard (although maybe this has changed since BF) as a .25/.50c game online.
It sounds like you will need to put a lot of work in to even get to be a break even player. Using a HUD will most likely make your life easier (and put you on a more level playing field at least).
I would recommend reading an e-book called easy game V.I by andrew seidman (balugawhale), as this covers a lot of the stuff you seem to be struggling with and does so very concisely and very well.
02-29-2012 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donovan
It seems like the players are 100X better now online than even the live players I play with and that is just brand new to me.
Wtf?

But yeah, games are lots tougher now. No one here is going to plug all your leaks and make you a winner again ITT, as your issues are probably too many and too broad to adress.

Re-learn the game, start way lower, like NL20 and go from there.

Poker boom ended a long time ago, bro.
02-29-2012 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3BunPass
It is pretty standard now for a $1/2 or $2/5 live game to be around the same standard (although maybe this has changed since BF) as a .25/.50c game online.
It sounds like you will need to put a lot of work in to even get to be a break even player. Using a HUD will most likely make your life easier (and put you on a more level playing field at least).
I would recommend reading an e-book called easy game V.I by andrew seidman (balugawhale), as this covers a lot of the stuff you seem to be struggling with and does so very concisely and very well.
Wow, I really have to disagree with this. I play 50NL online and 2/5 live and it's not uncommon for the worst players at 50NL online to be better than the best players at 2/5 live....like me, for example. I'm the best player in all of the 2/5 live games I play (backed up by winrate over time, not just my personal opinion) and I've been struggling at 50NL since starting back online. At first I thought I was just running bad but after ~35K hands and some database review I've come to the conclusion that I might not even be a winning player (at least on U.S. reg infested Merge) at 50NL.
02-29-2012 , 10:45 AM
Why did you stop if u were crushing so hard?
02-29-2012 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPrince
Did you open to 6x pre or was it a typo?
typo
Sorry
I'm used to playing 1-2 live cash games
normal bet is 3X
I bet 1.50, and all other bets/pots should be cut in half..damn, sorry all.
02-29-2012 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rems
Why did you stop if u were crushing so hard?
I had to get a "real job" after the Bush admin made it difficult on USA players
The majority of my poker income was from free lancing and my biggest job was for a site that was based on online play. After the crack down on paypal and credit card companies made it tougher for US online players the site i did most of my work for stop buying all articles and the book I sold to them never even made it to print (but I still kept the original 4K, just never got royalties).
Then I got married, then black friday,etc
I only recently figured out that there are still online sites USA player friendly.
02-29-2012 , 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tier1Capital
Wow, I really have to disagree with this. I play 50NL online and 2/5 live and it's not uncommon for the worst players at 50NL online to be better than the best players at 2/5 live....like me, for example. I'm the best player in all of the 2/5 live games I play (backed up by winrate over time, not just my personal opinion) and I've been struggling at 50NL since starting back online. At first I thought I was just running bad but after ~35K hands and some database review I've come to the conclusion that I might not even be a winning player (at least on U.S. reg infested Merge) at 50NL.
+1 on this. I play exactly the same, 2-5 live, and 50nl on merge, and the live game is a ton softer. I am 10 bb per 100, or $50per hour live over more than 100 hours over the last few months, and breakeven after rakeback online. Merge seems reg infested to me, although i am making adjustments and plugging leaks and seem to be playing or running better.
02-29-2012 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_carma
Every question you asked leads me to believe you are going to get crushed even at the 100nl. Games are much harder. Gl.
i'd say he'll get crushed at 25nl, actually. and i don't mean to sound offensive.

about the hand, open to 3x and a turn that improves your equity and puts a second overcard to most mid-pairs is the easiest second barrel ever.

Last edited by Gonira; 02-29-2012 at 12:38 PM.
02-29-2012 , 02:37 PM
i'm online 200nl/100nl reg but i get crushed at live 10NL... but that's probably just me
as many others said, go down to 10NL and see how you're doing there, play a bit, maybe couple of days will be enough to realise you're actually better and then move up again
02-29-2012 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobe4funas
i'm online 200nl/100nl reg but i get crushed at live 10NL...

Ya Live 10NL live is unbeatable imo. 200NL seems a little easier though maybe you should take a shot.
02-29-2012 , 03:20 PM
Locked by request of OP, please direct future posts to this thread

      
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