I havent been really active on 2p2 for quite a while, but i wanted to get more involved to learn something new, get into intresting discussion with useful arguments.

The quality of posts i stumbled across in the last few weeks in SSNL imo, was pretty mediocre, compared to what excellent stuff you can find in the archives and what happend in the past.

It seems like a lot of threads are just answered with personal preference - "ship it", "shove" - if the poster is generous he might add a one line explanation, sometimes somebody actually finds a fold - and thats it. Strategy discussion - very limited.

I really like this thread as a good example:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/39...59/index2.html

The poster asks a simple question - instead of an answer to his question, he gets LOTS of "ship it" and personal opinions he never asked for, but nobody seems to care to answer the original question, which might take a bit longer than to type "Shove".

So my point - shouldnt we at least try a bit harder getting into a serious discussion and actually improve&learn a lot more from this effort, than handing out comforting "shipits" that might give the original poster some comfort, that 20 other people would have stacked off in this spot too, but have no strategic value whatsoever?

ship it

In regards to that example you posted, not very many ppl are going to post detailed explanations for a trivial hand. For the most part everyone is not interested in spots that they know they can handle and seem obvious to them, especially when playing with half stacks with an overpair.

However, I do agree that many times there are a barrage of "ship it, fist pump" responses of which I am guilty of (see referenced example). Half of this is people not asking enough questions in their post, and the other that people don't care that much about standard spots.

There have been some decent discussions though. Many times when a regular and respected poster puts up a hand, many people will chime in. And if the spot is interesting you will see this too.

Cliff notes: interesting spots make interesting posts.

fold pre

So set an example and make better posts. No one cares or is going to be receptive to this post that's basically attacking them (FWIW I tend to agree with you).

Backwards thinking iyam.

The contents of that thread is not so much a problem considering the thread got posted in the first place.

SSNL is kinda unusable until you figure out who to listen too...

I tend to ask crappy questions though, suggestions on how to pick better hands/questions?

The reasons you usually see alot of "snap call" and "shove" spots is because alot of the hands posted are obvious stack-off hands where the OP gets coolered and wonders if they can find a miracle fold.

I usually respond shove because I suck, cant fold, and think everyone else is FOS. Its kinda beat but much better than the posters that say shove just so they can add a comment about how dumb your OP was and how awesome and rad they are at the pokers because they are very insecure and need the forum to think they are smart and cool.

reason for 1liner posts is that most spots r so boringly standard, i mean come on if ur at nl200 and still ask what ur meant to do when someone raises ur tptk 100bb deep in a 3bet pot then wtf

******ed live players trying to give advice doesnt help much either

welcome to 2p2

i'm sure a lot of replies would be better if people stopped posting should I fold kings preflop or can I fold this set on the flop.

Interesting hands often lead to good discussion while trivial hands usually get left with one word replies.

yea that hand sucked and warranted 0 discussion

when posting hands your more than likely going to get idiots giving you 3 word answers (take a look at hsnl) any hands that get posted there are butchered by half of nvg, when posting hands just read/reply to the posts that usually consist of more than 1 line.

most of ssnl are nits anyway and will tell you to fold most spots, i think they think that the hands that do get posted are only losing hands (or why else would we post them) so they just give awful reasoning behind folding pre or not 3betting JJ pre from the sb when a unknown 3x's it from mp. (the list goes on)

A lot of the hands posted are pretty standard tbh, with a lot of them just being cooler rather than difficult spots. Also a lot of the time players just post stats rather than posting their reads from hands that villain has shown down, which is prob gonna be a lot more useful than just preflop stats by themselves. So its likely that the quality of the questions being asked has gone down along with the replies, but wtf would I know, ive only been here 5mins.

In retrospect I think the best action is to muck it pre btw since this is one of those rare cases where you're already drawing dead.

forgot to add that it doesnt help when most people just write idsactly what the person above them writes. It turns into more of a parrot show than a hand discussion imo.

i'm shocked there hasn't been an amirite yet itt

That's so true and sth i critized several times (and got flamed for -being so ridiculous haha-). But see it from the positive side... These players won't develop much, which just better for us two lol
No, really. One of the great posters in the archieves once said sth like "a great number of posts is more a sign of boredom than wisdom".
Cheers!

If people paid attention at the tables and had proper reads 90%+ of the posts on 2p2 wouldn't be made.

Paying attention at the tables? Having reads? I don't understand.

just fold pre and you wouldnt have had to make this post

also most threads hav lol answers that assume postflop tendencies from preflop stats over 10 hands

A lot of the threads that I'm assuming u are talking about w/ little advice or little explanation are probably because of the standardness of the situation. I'd say 85%+ of threads posted should have a standard answer @ SSNL, and it seems like either people are just results oriented and don't want to be coolered or something. I'd just say more interesting hands need to be posted, and most good posters (w/ exception of like 3-4 peeps) hold back, esp on creating threads.

I don't think the holding back is the problem though, I'd say its more just weak hands posted in general. Like I'd say the reason why there are so many breakeven players and players unable to move up is because they don't understand why they made a fundamental mistake that everyone is criticizing them for (like fold pre, or 3bet/call flop) so they continue to do it. In this regard, threads where everyone is giving some answer like shove or snap it off can be helpful because it might get rid of some of the weak tight (or spewy, but generally SSNL is weak tight) tendencies holding these posters back.

And that thread you gave as an example is terrible, but also describes some of the flaws in thinking/gameplay that can be alleviated by the people giving answers unrelated to original question (i.e. shove river)

you guys need to learn to empty the clip once in a while

1. The hand i took as an example is good & bad. Its good in the way, that OP actually asked a proper question, what he actually is worried about in the hand. A lot of hands just get posted without a real goal in mind - Discuss! Discuss what?

2. Its bad in the way, that the answer as the hand played out with villain is shortstacked, there is only one real option. But, if you get asked in an exam e.g why plants are growing, you cant just answer, because the sun is shining bright, even if you think the question warrants zero discussion. That would most likely get you an F.

3. Some hands that are posted here are so screwed up from pf to river that they dont even deserve an answer, what a plausible river play is e.g. Instead the discussion should be aimed toward how to play the hand correctly in the first place. That helps a poster a lot more, and might keep all these repeating comments away.

4. Beside the "gut-feel" method quite a few hands can be described better with a math-based approach. I´m not good at this at all, but i started trying lately, and its just such an eye opener.
Typical hands for this are PF hands where Hero&villain get into a raising wars. You can either write a book about this taking all possible things into consideration and then come up with a shove/call/fold - or you do a EV-calculation and have a quick&clean answer. Either way is fine, but i have seen a lot of the first method, but pretty much none of the latter.

5. I agree that probably 90% of all players dont have proper reads so they just post stats with their hands. But i think, this is something that wont change - how are you gonna pick up solid reads if you 16table? But if you post a hand with only stats, please be so kind and at least explain reasons for why you 3bet pre/ c/r flop or whatever kind of unusual action you might take. This might help increase the quality of an answer. But sometimes its the case that posters dont seem to understand why they took this particular action in that moment - and we are back to point 3.

6. Whatever happend to the "tradition" that people getting Pooh-Bah or higher posted 1 well thought strategy/poker realated posted? There have to be a bunch of posters with exploding postcounts in the last couple months, but i havent seens a post like this in quite some time. Even if they achieved their whole post-count by posting "shoves" or in BBV/NVG - sometimes if you convince these people to THINK about something, a gem might be created, even if its controversial - at least it gets a discussion going.

7. Everbody who makes quality posts deserves a equal quality in answers. If the just keep getting LC replies, they might just turn their back to 2+2 and look for another place which there are plenty. That cant be in the intrest of the community?

So as i said before - lets just all try a bit harder.

cliffnotes plz?