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OESD on a 2 tone flop.... OESD on a 2 tone flop....

04-12-2008 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Royale
Does not make much sense.
Maybe pot control wasn't the correct way to say it. I just meant so say that if villain makes a larger raise size on the flop, he would be much more inclined to follow it up with a large turn bet. With a small flop raise he would be more inclined to check the turn. imo of course

Also i think shoving this regularly makes you very exploitable.
04-12-2008 , 01:32 PM
Urbe,

Isn't your argument best suited for a call then?

And nobody has recommended a fold so I am not sure why you don't 'get' 2+2.
04-12-2008 , 01:41 PM
why cont. bet here if you don't want to shove after the raise?
04-12-2008 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbe
Maybe pot control wasn't the correct way to say it. I just meant so say that if villain makes a larger raise size on the flop, he would be much more inclined to follow it up with a large turn bet. With a small flop raise he would be more inclined to check the turn. imo of course
I don't think he raises the flop if he has a hand he wants to play a small pot with. Sometimes he checks behind with a draw, give up a bluff or check the turn with AQ or something because a scarecard hit, but I just seriously doubt he's raising the flop if he wants to play a small pot with a mediocre or decent hand, if that is what you're saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbe
Also i think shoving this regularly makes you very exploitable.
I think this is the opposite of true. I mean what are you going to do? Call the guy's UTG raise and flop a monster on him every time? Folding such a strong draw might be possible to exploited though, but I don't think we should be worrying too much about getting exploited at 100nl.
04-12-2008 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Royale
Fwiw I'd shove this in a more stealy situation.
QFT, the fact this is UTG vs UTG+1 makes a shove pretty spewy imo, his hand range is going to be a lot stronger. I think a call is fine for the reason Nick pointed out, even OOP.
04-12-2008 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughn345
why cont. bet here if you don't want to shove after the raise?
What makes you think betting the flop commits us to shove over a raise?
04-12-2008 , 02:20 PM
Normally I fold this instantly given the conditions but the raise is so small I guess calling is fine? I think shoving seems a bit spewy
04-12-2008 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Royale
What makes you think betting the flop commits us to shove over a raise?
it doesn't, but your cont. bet is getting raised here almost all the time so why continue if you are just going to fold or draw to the straight.
04-12-2008 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughn345
it doesn't, but your cont. bet is getting raised here almost all the time so why continue if you are just going to fold or draw to the straight.
You can't be serious.
04-12-2008 , 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Royale
You can't be serious.
oops you're right, i was thinking of myself in spots like this, if hero is only raising 8% utg then yeah a cont. bet is standard here.
04-12-2008 , 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughn345
oops you're right, i was thinking of myself in spots like this, if hero is only raising 8% utg then yeah a cont. bet is standard here.
So they always raise your c-bets? You must make alot of money
04-12-2008 , 03:34 PM
ok its not a huuuge leak but your implied odds are very low, your oop making it difficult to extract max value the times you do hit. Unless villain was a serious donk this is a straight forward fold.

      
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