Hi.

Villain seems to be solid player.. 2,4BB/100

24/19/2.9 vpip/prr/ag

fold to 3bet 68, fold to cbet in 3bet pot 53

Question: what a reason to call turn if we should fold on blank" river?? Also, my line doesnt seem strong, right? its similar to something like combo, TT etc.

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
4 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO nilcci ($186.35)
BTN Semmerling ($196)
SB patowato ($234.25)
BB Hero ($200)

Pre-Flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is BB J K
1 fold, Semmerling raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero raises to $21.50, Semmerling calls $16.50

Flop: 8 J 5 ($48, 2 players)
Hero bets $30, Semmerling calls $30

Turn: 9 ($108, 2 players)
Hero checks, Semmerling bets $50, Hero calls $50

River: 5 ($208, 2 players)
Hero checks, Semmerling goes all-in $92.50, Hero calls $92.50

Final Pot: $393

up

dont like pf against described villain. no better hands fold, v few worse hands call.

id just barrel turn/river here cause he's not folding his pair + straight draws on the turn and i mean you have top pair good kicker on a drawy board with only 1 psb left, so whatever, i'm just sticking it in myself at some point.

however once you check, i guess your hand doesnt look super strong but i dont really see how he shows up with any bluffs here, unless he turns like 78 into a bluff or something. so id c/f turn given that you checked, but i think bet/betting is superior

not a big fan of the 3bet. if this guy is a decent player he is probably not calling with worse, whereas he is probably raising any king and any 2 suited, which gives you significant card advantage to call against him.
as played fold river, you clearly don't want to fold and he isn't bluffing

where do you guys get this from????

who cares if hes calling worse, preflop isn't for value. and do you honestly call with KQ and AJ from MP vs a 3 bet? do you know how many hands are in a 19 pfr's MP range, and how many he can actually continue with here?

and your posts are contradicting, "he is probably raising any king and any 2 suited" but "this is a bad 3 bet",

calling pre oop is far worse than 3 betting,

yeah. i agree with you.

i think you played it fine, i mean he reps 99 or AJ that's it, i don't think calling is horrible here. but its like, this might not be a board he floats

sizing definitely looks like he's vtowning you though.

after thinking about it... this is just a fold. he doesn't float a board like this, and a player like him would check back T9 on the turn, and what hands does he turn into a bluff here other than maybe 89? I think he has somethin like 99 here a lot. kinda sick

--"and do you honestly call with KQ and AJ from MP vs a 3 bet?"

hes on the button, and yes of course.

--"how many he can actually continue with here?"

it's obviously profitable in a vacuum but there are far better hands to do it with than KJ. 3betting KJ is a waste of a pretty good hand.

--"he is probably raising any king and any 2 suited" but "this is a bad 3 bet"

these arent contradictory at all. we want to keep in hands we dominate. 3betting forces him to fold every hand he dominates. although, perhaps amend the statement "this is a bad 3bet" to "this 3bet is not preferable"

--"calling pre oop is far worse than 3 betting"

strongly disagree.

okay, agree to disagree until more people come in to comment on this. preferably experienced players and not those guys with 50 posts.

there are people that say you shouldn't even call hands like small suited connectors, small pairs, and AJ/AT/KQ out of position, so it's hard to justify KJ, but let them comment if they do happen to see this topic.

granted i didn't realize it was 4 handed, but i think that makes 3 betting better

to really figure it out, you would have to calculate the EV of calling and the EV of 3 betting. even if you have uno cards in this spot, it may very well be true that you make more 3 betting and having him fold than you ever make when you call out of position. i am not completely sure because i did not do the calculation. however, usually the EV of calling out of position is much lower than it appears to be, because yes every now and then villain bluffs off his stack and you remember winning a few big pots, but you generally forget all the times you call and fold on the flop, turn or river.

i think this reasoning is kind of silly in this situation. is it a bad thing if worse hands fold?

that being said, i dont think calling preflop is bad either. just saying that 3-betting is not necessarily terrible, and certainly not for those reasons

3betting is fine, but calling definitely isn't bad, and is a valid enough line.

I like how you played the hand post. He should be spazzing often enough with your line to call it off now. Also, I don't like folding.

+1
Narrow value range from him but likely a bluff range of close to 0%. I can't really think of a worse hand that takes this line up to the river. And if I could think of one I still wouldn't think that he'd be doing that often enough unless he's pretty spazzy or turns marginal hands into bluffs relatively often.