NL100 - shove JJ preflop? - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL100 - shove JJ preflop?

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11-10-2008 , 04:23 PM

Nitrub

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,386

Villain was 32/26/2.7 and 3betting 12% over ~100 hands.
Hero folds or hero shoves?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): $100.50
BB: $190.90
UTG: $80.05
MP: $87.20
CO: $120.15
BTN: $97.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with J

2 folds, CO raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $13, 1 fold, CO raises to $35, Hero ?

11-10-2008 , 04:26 PM

steoin

stranger

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 6

Whats your image like?

11-10-2008 , 04:35 PM

yemen

adept

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,082

if you think this is a light four bet alot then jam. the question is whether you think it's a light four bet or not, you need to think about your image and his.

11-10-2008 , 04:40 PM

TPTK77

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,438

with how aggressive he is, ship it in.

11-10-2008 , 04:40 PM

X0zix

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 581

Shoving JJ 4bet allin pre is fine, not 5betting it against fish imo. He is prolly only going nuts with QQ-KK-AA, and AK is the only hand you are 50/50 with. And then again it's only 100 hands.
Easy fold

11-10-2008 , 04:53 PM

Thrahl

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,763

Shoves Mcgee

11-10-2008 , 04:59 PM

mivara

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436

The disgusting thing is that those semi-maniacs get dealt QQ+ just as often as we do and he would probably benefit from his image when 4-betting with it.

Meh, that being said I guess I agree with yemen.

11-10-2008 , 05:08 PM

Vampiro

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 177

Easy push given positions and villain.

If you're not comfortable shoving JJ in this spot just flat his first raise, 3betting and then folding to a 4bet it's pretty terrible.

11-10-2008 , 05:13 PM

Nitrub

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampiro

If you're not comfortable shoving JJ in this spot just flat his first raise

I think that doesn't achieve anything.

Quote:

3betting and then folding to a 4bet it's pretty terrible.

Why?

11-10-2008 , 05:15 PM

#10

Magaca

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 890

Easy push!!

Against a range of QQ+,AK, he only has to be bluffing 1/3rd of the time for shoving to be +ev, iirc.

11-10-2008 , 05:25 PM

#11

Vampiro

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitrub

I think that doesn't achieve anything.

You achieve playing a pot in position with a strong disguissed hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitrub

Why?

Because you're likely folding the best hand without even seeing a flop. It's better to reraise crap like 75o that you can easily let go against a 4bet.

I still prefer the 3bet-5bet line.

11-10-2008 , 05:45 PM

#12

flopthejoint

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 61

Take a look at his 4bet% and fold to 3bet%. Chances are they're going to tell u 5b shove is fine.

I've been all in pre with JJ at 100NL several times, usually winning flips vs AK

11-10-2008 , 06:02 PM

#13

Nitrub

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampiro

You achieve playing a pot in position with a strong disguissed hand.

Hero is SB - no position.

11-10-2008 , 06:18 PM

#14

Vampiro

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 177

Sorry I thought u were on the button.

Still 3bet-5 bet > call >>>>>> 3bet-fold

11-10-2008 , 06:31 PM

#15

Vrange

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampiro

Easy push given positions and villain.

If you're not comfortable shoving JJ in this spot just flat his first raise, 3betting and then folding to a 4bet it's pretty terrible.

100% agree.

11-10-2008 , 08:25 PM

#16

good_gamble

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 601

fk me this thread tilts me, guy that said:

Quote:

Whats your image like?

hit the nail on the head

11-10-2008 , 08:37 PM

#17

KCrow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitrub

Villain was 32/26/2.7 and 3betting 12% over ~100 hands.

I don't 3bet jacks without the intention on getting it in here, eps Blind Vs CO open.

11-11-2008 , 11:03 AM

#18

X0zix

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 581

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCrow

I don't 3bet jacks without the intention on getting it in here, eps Blind Vs CO open.

Blind vs Co open is not a good argument , this guy doesn't know **** about position and is just looking at his cards.

11-11-2008 , 11:04 AM

#19

X0zix

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 581

4betting and calling shove JJ against such a guy is good, not 5betting it imo. His 4betting range probably has you crushed.

11-11-2008 , 11:30 AM

#20

klink10k

banned

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,721

shovel

11-11-2008 , 11:37 AM

#21

X0zix

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 581

Quote:

Originally Posted by klink10k

shovel

And what are the hands you see getting value from?

11-11-2008 , 12:00 PM

#22

KCrow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by X0zix

And what are the hands you see getting value from?

TT, 99 then we're flipping with AQs and AK.

FWIW I'd consider a 32/26 more LAG than fish. I agree that 5bet shoving JJ against a 40/10 wouldn't be a good idea.

Last edited by KCrow; 11-11-2008 at 12:05 PM.

11-11-2008 , 12:11 PM

#23

klink10k

banned

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,721

this is a type of situation where even though his calling range has you in moderately bad shape, he can be doing this light with some frequency and show up with a worse PP or just fold, and thats all you need to negate the equity difference between his calling range.