Nl100: River decision, lets take a deep think **3rd KlausSmallblind thread**
03-13-2008
, 07:36 PM
Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
tennis_full_t (MP): $157.50
flexfit (CO): $144.20
Ultimate3000 (BTN): $99.90
Charcot (SB): $109.70
Hero (BB): $256.00
UniKK (UTG): $100.00
Pre Flop: Hero is BB with K
A
UniKK raises to $3.50, 3 folds, Charcot calls $3, Hero raises to $14, UniKK calls $10.50, Charcot calls $10.50
Flop: ($42.00) 5
4
7 (3 players)
Charcot checks, Hero checks, UniKK checks
Turn: ($42.00) K (3 players)
Charcot checks, Hero bets $25, UniKK folds, Charcot calls $25
River: ($92.00) 6 (2 players)
Charcot bets $54, Hero folds
Hey, this is Klaus Smallblind again, this time i want to talk with you about the river, i choosed this hand from my PO database.
in my first 2 Threads ( http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=153370 ) & ( http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=153302 )
i talked to you about the turn and the preflop play, and some deep thinkings behind it.
As already stated, in this new thread i will talk about the river.
I think, in my first 2 Threads, i was going to deep, and most people couldnt follow. Lets do it simple this time.
We're in the BB, utg opened and sb calls only, so i think with our AK here, a squeeze is the best possible play preflop.
We get 2 Callers, and here comes the flop. The Pot is 42$, we have 2 player with us in this hand, no backdoordraw and only 2 overcards, both players have like 80bb and more behind. What ever we bet here(which had enough foldeq), would commit us to this hand, i think a check is the best play here.
I see alot of people just shove here and tell me about foldeq, and that we got some outs - i would possibly sometimes agree to this if we play against 1 villain, but any player that will shove here, has to think about his game and why he isnt a big winner at his limit.
Turn: we got tptk now, perfect card - would you shove? keep in mind that Unikk also checked behind on the flop (which was the UTG raiser). BUT, Unikk the UTG raiser, isnt our problem at all.. he got most times overcards on this limit, we can totaly concentrate about the SB which called both raises preflop. His handrange is way more dangerous for us at this flop. Overpairs, sets, and so on.
So with our TPTK i only bet 25$ in the 42$, with the thinking BEHIND: to fold on a bad betsize by the SB, and to call everything from the UTG. THIS HERE might be the key, think about this!!!!
of course we also got some foldeq with the 25$ bet, not much, but im fine with it.
The SB calls and the UTG player folds.
River:
NOW, what is a bad bet from the SB to that i would fold?
exactly this value donk bet here. he dont even shoves for his 10bb or whatever more, so i could think about a stupid draw that misses and now he could bluff, NO. He has US definatly with this Betting size Beat, were dead right here.
Think about his randrange with that he would make this betting size.
Till the river, i also thought an overpair 88-QQ for possible for him. But he would never do this betting size with QQ here, cmon.
So what does he have here, to make us fold to 54$ in a 92$ pot with AK?
sets, weired twopair/straights(lol?), slowplayed AA(still possible), backdoor fd?(possible and would be our error cause of the small turn bet). Ak split pot?
I can tell you, that he showed his hand, so i cut this out, and yes i was right, but thats not the point of the thread.
The Point is the riverplay, maybe there some informations and things that you see on the past streets. I saved atleast 54$ here, thats what makes the difference between a 10ptbb winner, and for example a 30ptbb winner.
take a deep think, thing about the ev of all our possible plays.
I showed you another way of outplaying bad players at smallstakes longterm for way more money as your could get with your "stupid" shove/fold plays, that i see allways here, u can with a deep thinking and understanding of the gameflow, make more money as you can imagine.
Klaus 'Attention Whore' Smallblind
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
tennis_full_t (MP): $157.50
flexfit (CO): $144.20
Ultimate3000 (BTN): $99.90
Charcot (SB): $109.70
Hero (BB): $256.00
UniKK (UTG): $100.00
Pre Flop: Hero is BB with K
AUniKK raises to $3.50, 3 folds, Charcot calls $3, Hero raises to $14, UniKK calls $10.50, Charcot calls $10.50
Flop: ($42.00) 5
4 7 (3 players)Charcot checks, Hero checks, UniKK checks
Turn: ($42.00) K
(3 players)Charcot checks, Hero bets $25, UniKK folds, Charcot calls $25
River: ($92.00) 6
(2 players)Charcot bets $54, Hero folds
Hey, this is Klaus Smallblind again, this time i want to talk with you about the river, i choosed this hand from my PO database.
in my first 2 Threads ( http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=153370 ) & ( http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=153302 )
i talked to you about the turn and the preflop play, and some deep thinkings behind it.
As already stated, in this new thread i will talk about the river.
I think, in my first 2 Threads, i was going to deep, and most people couldnt follow. Lets do it simple this time.
We're in the BB, utg opened and sb calls only, so i think with our AK here, a squeeze is the best possible play preflop.
We get 2 Callers, and here comes the flop. The Pot is 42$, we have 2 player with us in this hand, no backdoordraw and only 2 overcards, both players have like 80bb and more behind. What ever we bet here(which had enough foldeq), would commit us to this hand, i think a check is the best play here.
I see alot of people just shove here and tell me about foldeq, and that we got some outs - i would possibly sometimes agree to this if we play against 1 villain, but any player that will shove here, has to think about his game and why he isnt a big winner at his limit.
Turn: we got tptk now, perfect card - would you shove? keep in mind that Unikk also checked behind on the flop (which was the UTG raiser). BUT, Unikk the UTG raiser, isnt our problem at all.. he got most times overcards on this limit, we can totaly concentrate about the SB which called both raises preflop. His handrange is way more dangerous for us at this flop. Overpairs, sets, and so on.
So with our TPTK i only bet 25$ in the 42$, with the thinking BEHIND: to fold on a bad betsize by the SB, and to call everything from the UTG. THIS HERE might be the key, think about this!!!!
of course we also got some foldeq with the 25$ bet, not much, but im fine with it.
The SB calls and the UTG player folds.
River:
NOW, what is a bad bet from the SB to that i would fold?
exactly this value donk bet here. he dont even shoves for his 10bb or whatever more, so i could think about a stupid draw that misses and now he could bluff, NO. He has US definatly with this Betting size Beat, were dead right here.
Think about his randrange with that he would make this betting size.
Till the river, i also thought an overpair 88-QQ for possible for him. But he would never do this betting size with QQ here, cmon.
So what does he have here, to make us fold to 54$ in a 92$ pot with AK?
sets, weired twopair/straights(lol?), slowplayed AA(still possible), backdoor fd?(possible and would be our error cause of the small turn bet). Ak split pot?
I can tell you, that he showed his hand, so i cut this out, and yes i was right, but thats not the point of the thread.
The Point is the riverplay, maybe there some informations and things that you see on the past streets. I saved atleast 54$ here, thats what makes the difference between a 10ptbb winner, and for example a 30ptbb winner.
take a deep think, thing about the ev of all our possible plays.
I showed you another way of outplaying bad players at smallstakes longterm for way more money as your could get with your "stupid" shove/fold plays, that i see allways here, u can with a deep thinking and understanding of the gameflow, make more money as you can imagine.
Klaus 'Attention Whore' Smallblind
Last edited by Not_In_My_Name; 03-13-2008 at 08:09 PM.
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