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10-29-2008 , 09:45 AM
Villain runs at 17/14/2 with WTSD 22 over a good sample size.
My image at the table should be spotless.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($171.55)
UTG ($49.05)
MP ($271.25)
CO ($105.50)
Button ($60.70)
SB ($100)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
UTG calls $1, MP raises to $4.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $3.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($10.50) 4, 8, 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $7, Hero raises to $20.50, MP calls $13.50

Turn: ($51.50) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $40.50

If he calls turn again do we shove some rivers?
10-29-2008 , 10:09 AM
I like it it's hard for him to continue with overpairs here. I do give up when he calls the turn bet.
10-29-2008 , 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xeanatic
I like it it's hard for him to continue with overpairs here. I do give up when he calls the turn bet.
+1 to this. If he calls this turn I cannot see him folding any sort of non 5/7 river, and even then it's close.
10-29-2008 , 10:26 AM
I don't like this because, while you are repping a set people just have a hard time folding overpairs on this board and he's also going to show up with a set here sometimes
10-29-2008 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoP_86
I don't like this because, while you are repping a set people just have a hard time folding overpairs on this board and he's also going to show up with a set here sometimes
Note that we are deep so he feels more threatened because he will think we will shove the river also and I can't see him calling unless we have some kind of sick history..
10-29-2008 , 10:28 AM
this hand is sort of a 'leveling war' type hand if you are both thinking players because a lot of tag's in hero's spot c/r this flop on a bluff
10-29-2008 , 12:37 PM
i like this line a lot, particularly against this type of player. good thinking. i'd probably give up the turn though?
10-29-2008 , 01:29 PM
I'd like a slightly more connected flop to do this with. Even though you rep a set well, that's all you can rep. If the board were 456r then you can rep straights and two pairs as well. Not saying this is necessarily bad, just that a lot of players won't believe you, I mean as played yeah you had to follow through on the turn. If he calls that it's close as to whether or not you should shove the river.
10-29-2008 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser112
i like this line a lot, particularly against this type of player. good thinking. i'd probably give up the turn though?
edit: i meant i'd probably give up on the river?
10-29-2008 , 01:35 PM
float is better. give up on the river. also your turn bet is too big imo.
10-29-2008 , 01:45 PM
I haven't read the responses in the tread because I don't want it to taint my initial response to your bluff:

First, I think that flatting preflop is ok but I prefer squeezing, especially if the villain has a tendency to isolate limpers. Secondly, your line looks really strong and especially after that turncard and strong bet he will have alot of trouble continuing with one pair hands, which overpairs make up a portion of his range. I think firing a third barrel is likely going to be unsuccessful if the turn barrel doesn't work. If he calls the turn he is probably calling it off.
10-29-2008 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterdraws
float is better. give up on the river. also your turn bet is too big imo.
Don't float oop, will only lead to trouble. The c/r flop is fine and the turn bet makes it hard for him to call with a big pp. If he does call the turn, I don't see him folding to many rivers so I would give it up after he calls the turn.
10-29-2008 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterdraws
float is better. give up on the river. also your turn bet is too big imo.
I think floating oop is in general not a great idea.
Would you check raise lots of turns or bet them yourself?

I think a c/r has way more FE and gives me the lead in the hand.

As for my turn betsizing I have to bet this big to set up a
potsize river shove, as I would do when I actually have a set.
10-29-2008 , 02:52 PM
its a pretty bad board to c/r on given the fact that all you can rep is a set and sets usually flat here.
10-29-2008 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by klink10k
its a pretty bad board to c/r on given the fact that all you can rep is a set and sets usually flat here.
given stacks, i doubt that.

anyways, i think this line is okay, i might make the turn bet slightly less then overbet jam the river if called, depending on the card.
10-29-2008 , 03:03 PM
I check/fold after the flop fails. I think trying to get people to fold overpairs on dry boards is a bad idea.
10-29-2008 , 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange
given stacks, i doubt that.

anyways, i think this line is okay, i might make the turn bet slightly less then overbet jam the river if called, depending on the card.
What cards would you jam and which would you c/f?
10-29-2008 , 04:02 PM
7/10 given image.
10-30-2008 , 08:26 AM
One more question.
What if he calls turn and river is a A/Q do we value shove or c/f?
10-30-2008 , 10:09 AM
If your barrelling turn I think you must empty the clip on the river. It really looks like he has an overpair and if you had a set in this case you'd make a large bet on the river as he'd have a hard time folding. I like a slight overbet on the river as that is how Id play a set and an overbet is olways the nutz obv.!

Also I barrell > 3/4 pot on A river and bet roughly 1/2 pot on Q river
10-30-2008 , 10:58 AM
i think you should barrel a A, 7, 5 river 100%, i honestly just donīt know if you have to bet river if you barrel turn, so i wonder what others might have to say about this.
10-30-2008 , 11:02 AM
Pretty bad.
10-30-2008 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiino
Pretty bad.
Pretty helpful.
10-30-2008 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ieee754
What cards would you jam and which would you c/f?
more middling cards probably. i'm not sure how well a 17/14 hand reads and its pretty hard for you to have that many credible bluffs on the river. however, the obvious bad cards (pairing the board) are generally the worst ones as its that much harder to rep a set (mainly because its not like you're not going to have a hand like 84s.

i would probably check fold Qx on the river (though i might valuebet, stacks are awkward and our opponent is very tight) though i think i'd 1/2 pot a river A as opposed to jamming. against a decent hand reader and one is isn't as nitty (willing to continue with lesser hands), i'd probably just jam Qx/Ax on the river.

here is a similar hand i played a while back against 2p2er deaders:

http://www.pokerhand.org/?2731946
10-30-2008 , 11:33 AM
i think it's fine, stacking off here without history with an overpair for 170bb is pretty bad i think. bet turn, shove most rivers.

      
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