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NL100 Line Check with KK NL100 Line Check with KK

04-16-2014 , 04:28 PM
$1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: $100.00
Hero (BB): $101.50
UTG: $193.56
MP: $137.40
CO: $160.92
BTN: $100.00

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has K K

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $2.00, fold, Hero raises to $8.00, BTN calls $6.00

Flop: ($16.50, 2 players) K 6 A
Hero bets $10.00, BTN calls $10.00

Turn: ($36.50, 2 players) A
Hero checks, BTN bets $25.00, Hero calls $25.00

River: ($86.50, 2 players) Q
Hero checks,


Villain is a competent reg with stats of 21/19. I have been 3betting quite a bit but this is the first time I've 3bet him.

On the turn, if I bet turn shove river he will likely call down with Ax and fold the rest. If I check, is it a safe assumption that he will bet turn with Ax as well as flush draw and gutshot floats, and then follow through with a jam on the river with most Ax as well as possible bluffs? So basically, it doesn't really matter what line I take when he has Ax, but by taking a weaker line, I get more from his bluffs. Sound okay?
04-16-2014 , 07:08 PM
i check to induce a bluff/thin value bet.

I don't think any combo of AT, AJ, Ax would check back the river and if we just lead the river then we miss value from his bluffing range since he is almost never bluff raising here if we lead the river
04-17-2014 , 06:03 AM
Not sure, why you are checking here. This is a spot where you could just go for 3 barrels to get stacks in.

You could also x/r, bet small turn in order to set up small river ship, but with villains incompetent betsizing getting this AI by turn/river shouldn't be an issue.

I don't hate check line's like these versus stabby/barrel happy people.

River: Ship it.

Last edited by brutti; 04-17-2014 at 06:11 AM.
04-25-2014 , 11:21 PM
this is a way more interesting spot than i first thought when i read the thread

will ponder haha
04-26-2014 , 01:35 AM
Well played either way, but I'm leaning more towards shipping the river. The only hands that call flop/turn are value hands. The only hands you are "inducing" are value hands. All value hands are calling a river shove on this board. Not reason to risk getting checked back on.
04-26-2014 , 06:56 AM
At first I thought just bet, bet, bet. But after sitting down and really thinking about it, your play is a lot more interesting than I thought. On the turn/river your hand looks like Kx. The only issue I have here is, there's a chance he checks back turn with an ace. He's never folding an A so I think it's best not to get fancy and just BBB.

If you or anyone else is interested in free small to midstakes 6max coaching or just want a friend to go over some HHs with, shoot me a PM.
04-26-2014 , 07:10 AM
There is certainly nothing wrong with your thought process, but I would want more info on villain before I give up potential value by checking.

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04-27-2014 , 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_grindin
There is certainly nothing wrong with your thought process, but I would want more info on villain before I give up potential value by checking.

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+1 agreed. I would rather check my weak Ax hands OTT because these hands can't get 3 streets of value anyway. With this hand we can get 3 streets so I'd much rather just cont' betting.
05-03-2014 , 01:53 PM
Good check on turn as we block many second Kx pairs and villain has tiny range of hands he can call our bet with. When we have KK his range is more polarized, he will always bet Ax and a lot bluffs,if we had set of six, i like bet on turn to take value from Kx
05-05-2014 , 03:59 AM
i like your line in this spot, although i don't mind betting turn and possibly river also, or checking river to induce dependent on opponent
As previously said we block Kx combos which gives him more combos of Ax on flop, he's going to barrel these most likely and probably not check back river as played and you also induce bluffs by checking two streets
05-05-2014 , 07:28 AM
I like!

Villain would probably just fold some of his FDs to a turn-bet but decide that he has enough Ax in his range to justify bluffing with those. Maybe he checks back river with some of his very weak Ax which is unfortunate. But on the other hand, I doubt he'd call a potential 3-barrel with any Ax anyway (not so sure about that though).

Quote:
Originally Posted by brutti
Not sure, why you are checking here. This is a spot where you could just go for 3 barrels to get stacks in.

You could also x/r, bet small turn in order to set up small river ship, but with villains incompetent betsizing getting this AI by turn/river shouldn't be an issue.

I don't hate check line's like these versus stabby/barrel happy people.

River: Ship it.
Shipping river as played is awful.
05-06-2014 , 06:33 AM
You should ask yourself few questions:
-will he turn his hand to a bluff since the queen doesn't change much or he will check back
-will he value bet any weak A or will just call with
After check calling the river your range has alot of Kx, weak A or better, so if you bet you should do so that an A would call




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05-06-2014 , 06:55 AM
i like it
05-06-2014 , 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutti
Not sure, why you are checking here. This is a spot where you could just go for 3 barrels to get stacks in.

You could also x/r, bet small turn in order to set up small river ship, but with villains incompetent betsizing getting this AI by turn/river shouldn't be an issue.

I don't hate check line's like these versus stabby/barrel happy people.

River: Ship it.
If villain holds a strong enough hand to call our barrels, in this spot he's putting lots/all of his stack in himself when checked to as well. However this way we gain additional value from any missed draws/floats he can have and also it's pretty good for range protection.
05-06-2014 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mucknuts
If villain holds a strong enough hand to call our barrels, in this spot he's putting lots/all of his stack in himself when checked to as well. However this way we gain additional value from any missed draws/floats he can have and also it's pretty good for range protection.
As others have said and I was alluding to that's only valid if villain bluffs here when checked to. Otherwise you're just giving up pure value for balancing purposes which makes no sense to me here.

I'd rather bet all 3 streets with most if not all of my full houses here for fat value. In all honesty checking A full houses makes more sense to me bc we block so much Ax it's hard to get value from anything else.

If you want to check something back weak Ax candidates seem to be just fine. It's not like not having a fullhouse in your checking range is going to be all that exploitable.


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05-06-2014 , 11:16 PM
I'm not sure what range you guys are 3betting BB v BTN 2x but my god there is some nonsense in this thread
05-08-2014 , 12:21 PM
bet bet bet dude.

      
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