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KQ on btn, get 3-bet again. KQ on btn, get 3-bet again.

01-19-2008 , 05:33 PM
If you really hate shoving flops and don't want to 4-bet, then the only choice left is to flat call your whole range of non-folding hands (including pairs, drawy hands and high non-pairs) and flat calling your non folding hands on the flop also so that your whole range is still possible on the turn. And then when he checks turn, you have to still balance bluffs for when to shove or not when he checks otherwise you are easy to read. You need strong hands here as well as some semi-bluff hands. This is a good strategy, but hard to execute due to it being much more complicated to execute. If you do this and just add in a crapload of mediocre hands like KQ/KJ/AT then you hands are unbalanced and he can profitably shove turn a lot more. You also have to shove turn when he checks a percent with draws that missed. And if you check behind on turn it can't mean that you have a mediocre hand cuz he can then shove river and you are really screwed again, so both you shoving turn and calling or shoving river ranges all need to be balanced.
01-19-2008 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackAll
No I really wouldn't.

He has a wide range here if he 3-bets light.
So he misses ALOT and pushing over his 3-bet he folds ALOT.
I want a hand I can get it in with. If I hit a draw I can get his c-bet alot when he folds alot. If he calls, we still have not too bad odds.

same argument applies with KQ. you can still shove over alot of cbets

If we balance this with calling strong hands to his 3-bet also and shoving flop then also we have a made hand a high percent of the the time. If you 3-b light and someone c/shoves with a big hand 50% of the time and a draw that will still hit 1/3 of the time. You are in pretty bad shape.

you don't need to balance that much generally. i would like evidence that villain is capable of judging the makeup of our various ranges before i sacrifice present +EV moves in return for metagame advantages

I don't want to get it in with KQ ever here as the 3-bet caller. If the money goes in here we are behind usually.
completely incorrect. as villain 3bets lighter, highcard hands regain their value significantly as in todays aggro games, top pair is the nuts in a 3bet pot, especially button v blind
01-19-2008 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackAll
How can you like pf?

Being
- in a 3-bet pot
- not as the aggressor
- and with a marginal hand.


Sounds like a recipe for pain.
i like it because our opponent is

- in a 3bet pot
- OOP
- with a marginal hand
01-19-2008 , 06:16 PM
I like shoving flops in rr pots IP and KQ is a better hand to do it with than 54s imo.
01-19-2008 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeq
I like a small 4bet pf or call shove many other flops than this. But I dont like to do it with a hand like KQo so I fold pf
4betting is turning a hand that has good value in a 3bet pot postflop into a bluff. i rather 4bet small with 54s (lol) and call with KQo here, and its not even close

      
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