Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
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UTG: $54.30
CO: $100.00
Hero (BTN): $117.55
SB: $101.70
BB: $59.35

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with J J
1 fold, CO raises to $3, Hero raises to $9, 2 folds, CO raises to $26, Hero raises to $117.55 all in




Villain played 17/16/3.4 over 200 hands, w 3bet$ 3 F23bet of 50, and 4bet-range 5%

He just sat down, so there was no histroy involved.
This was my 1st 3bet.

Is this standard and good ?

What do all those stats mean?

I don't think a 17/16 is ever 4-betting light here, unless you have a read that he 4-bets big with AK and 4-bets smaller with premium pairs. Is there any history at the table? Have you been 3-betting him a lot? What are your stats? Without more information it looks like a fold.

although 200 hands isnt a huge sample, 17/16 3bet 3% and 4bet 5% is generally not someone you want to 5bet with JJ /w no history. 3bet is pretty standard Btn v CO.

that is non-standard and horrible.

It is spew because nothing in the stats indicates he would be 4betting light, and you are against a range of JJ+/AK.

I think you need to 3bet and fold to the 4bet.

I play NL200 on stars and would say that this is insanely standard at least at NL200.
3bet/folding to a 4bet is beyond horrible...

yea i think folding to the 4bet is weak as hell, flatting the 4bet IP looks good though

Im not a fan of calling of 25% of my stack preflop and then having to play guessing games on every flop except when we flop a set... Just shove it in pre

What are you people saying...
Fold preflop. And flatting is even worse than shoving. Against a 24/21 guy who 4 bets a decent amount this is a shove, but against a 17/16 guy with no history this is such an easy fold.

Once you get some history with the opponent then this can be ok, but if all you have is stats then I doubt he's 4-betting anything less than QQ+/AK against which you should fold.

If you have JJ and you're going to fold to a 4bet than don't 3bet (I doubt this guy is gonna flat the 3bet with too many hands from OOP) so just call his open here. Against a slightly different player and/or after a little history with this guy 3betting his CO raise from the button and 5betting all-in over his 4bet with JJ will be pretty standard.



Actually there's a good chance I'd do exactly what you did here. His 4bet RANGE is 5% not his 4bet%. This means his 4bet % is 31.25%. I think that's right. Someone check that and make sure I did it right.


A 5% range corresponds to 99+,AKo,AJs+,KQs. I guess there's a good chance he's actually more polarized 4betting the stronger of those hands and then 4betting different hands as bluffs. I'm also guessing that in this CO/button dynamic there's more 3betting and 4betting than a player's average stats.

Lego, I think you misinterpreted 4-bet RANGE. I know that's how OP puts it, but I'm pretty sure that its just the number HUD spits out as a % of times he 4 bets when he gets three bet. I think that's a reasonable assumption - a 17/16 guy wont be 4 betting 99+,AKo,AJs+,KQs. But not three betting JJ form button when CO opens is pretty bad, you are underestimating how often he flats the 3 bet. Once he four bets ( I think QQ+ AK+) I think it's easy to just let it go.

It's bad logic to say don't three bet if you are going to fold to a four bet.

No Holdem Manager has a separate 4bet% stat and a 4bet range stat. I haven't looked at it in a while because I don't really use the 4bet range stat but I thought you take the % of the time someone 4bets and the range they had opened with in the first place and find their 4bet range.


So if he opens 16% of the time and his 4bet range is 5%

5/16 = X/100 Means he is 4betting 31.25% of the time.




No it's not. If this guy ...

1.) isn't going to call the 3bet while OOP with a range that JJ does that well against

2.) is only going to 4bet something like QQ+,AK so hero has to fold JJ to his 4bet

Than what is the point of 3betting? Do you want to do it with JJ to serve that point?



The only way I would 3bet a hand like JJ planning to fold to a 4bet is if my opponent ...

1.) Calls 3bets with a pretty wide range of hands

2.) Rarely ever 4bet and only does so with very strong premium hands

Absent one of those than 3betting JJ while planning to fold to a 4bet sucks. You may as well have 32. Actually you may very well be better off having A2 or K2 than you are having JJ as those two hands would cut down on the # of combos of AA,KK,AK villain could have.


If the guy is ....

1.) Not going to call your 3bet with too wide a range and JJ doesn't do too great against this calling range

2.) Only 4betting premiums


Than I'm flatting JJ here (though I will 3bet 75s and such and a bunch of other stuff).

Well, if that is what the stat is, I stand corrected.

But, if that stat is correct, then it obviously again becomes good to three bet and get it in against someone with that 4-betting range.

But intuitively I can't imagine a scenario where it would be profitable to get JJ in preflop against a 17/16 wit whom I have no history.

Something is off here.

You're making a big assumption that this guy is good... and that he will not call a 3-bet OOP.

This is NL100, there aren't many good players at this level.