i cant see myself folding pf to this minraise, fold the flop as played? villian is unknown.


Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

CO: $209.00
Hero (BTN): $217.00
SB: $485.30
BB: $230.35
UTG: $58.40
MP: $202.00

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with J J
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, CO raises to $9, Hero raises to $32, 1 fold, BB raises to $70, 2 folds, Hero calls $38

Flop: ($152.00) 9 6 4 (2 players)
BB bets $160.35 all in, Hero ?

[ ] minraise

I think if you call this pre you have to call this flop, what else are you looking for besides a J?

Pre-flop call seems marginal, i would probably fold to a cold 3-bet here against an unknown but im a nit.

it was basically a min raise. he made it 70 instead of 64, and its a cold 4 bet. if he made a normal pot sized raise id muck but i got owned and called the small 4 bet. his insta shove on this flop would obv make me think he had ak .

[x] owned...

i'd either push or fold preflop depending the villain. as played, if you're calling preflop you call this flop every single day of the week

uhhhh...what kind of flop were you expecting? Jxx? ????????????????

The 4 bet size is actually kind of close to standard for a lot of tags (the majority of my 4-bets are going to lean towards the smaller size as to strike a nice balance between a) bluff 4-bets being cheaper and b) encouraging more action with big hands). If you're calling preflop you just can't fold the flop as AK is, combinatorially speaking, the most likely hand, although it's anybodies guess what percent of the times he open shoves the flop with AK. My guess is often enough. Going back to preflop I think you're in a shove or fold situation here and I prefer a fold (I'm a little on the nitty side though)

minraise would be 55. it is a 4-bet, sorry. And i was agreeing that you should call the flop once you call pre, but i think its marginal to -ev to call even this "almost min raise" I think a lot of unexperienced players have trouble with bet sizing here and this means a very strong hand most the time.

if you call the 4bet pf and get the perfect flop for your hand then you make a thread asking if you should call or not? obviously you should call but the only hand you're beating is AK and that is really unlikely on the flop since most people will just c/f AK if their 4bets are called

i dont think his 4bet sizing is that unusual, i feel like i see ppl 4bet it up to around 1/3 of stack quite often these days

the pf call is what im debating. which leads me to this spot on the flop.

it's not a "spot on the flop" given that you called pre, it's an automatic braindead instacall. if you dont want to stack on this board, fold pre.

i realize you get prob get this, it's just that you can't like, take a flop and reevaluate and consider folding. you might as well not even post the action after villain 4bets.

i'd fold pre here to an unknown's cold 4bet btw

vs a cold 4-bet I'm only continuing with QQ+, sometimes only KK+ depending on the player. Fold JJ pf, as played get it in, you can't call pf and then fold this flop.

um if you arent calling this flop then preflop is terrible

that said, fold preflop vs cold 4b all day

+1

This is pretty much what I thought. If you call the preflop play and you get this flop how can you fold and why did you call?

oh and i fold QQ here too

I fold pre-flop without really thinking about it.

fold pre

This is AA 70% of the time and KK about 30%

dude, this is an easy PF fold imo

I had the same hand yesterday and I went broke vs AA. Nice, it will never happen again.

You seriously fold JJ,QQ and AK to a cold 4-bet?

I think calling the flop is closer than it seems