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J7s 4b pot

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04-27-2014 , 01:15 PM

#26

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,946

looking at it on the flop you compare the pot size to the stack size of the villian here and he isnt deep at that point in time. that is what counts concerning flop play not the starting stacks.

04-27-2014 , 02:20 PM

#27

pokerfunAK

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 392

Flat pre.

As played shove flop. Even if villian calls it will be a coin-flip most of the time.

04-28-2014 , 07:11 AM

#28

AshleyC

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,278

3b pf is fine/good this deep against most opponents at 50nl as most opponents here open too much pf from SB vs BB / don't 4b without QQ+ this deep oop; so you can / should 3b relentlessly. With a better hand like J9s it's better to flat but it's not like J7s plays that well post flop.

05-03-2014 , 01:55 PM

#29

Mamont

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 76

I like checking the flop, can't say anything about call on river as we don't have any info on opp

05-11-2014 , 07:24 PM

#30

TheBaconWarrior

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 889

To bet flop is really vacuum oriented. Given his preflop sizing we should be calling the 4bet pre with virtually all our junk 3bet range because lolpotodds.

That means on this board we're going to have a ton of junk. To bet or not to bet flop depends on how hero plays his merged value range preflop. The more junk oriented hero's preflop 3bet/call range is, the more we should be inclined to check back this flop to avoid getting abused in these spots.

05-11-2014 , 09:35 PM

#31

aaronray

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 94

As played pre. I'm always betting this flop. If Vill c/r's us then it's def. a shove as we would be in a sticky situation if the turn bricks and we just flat the turn, or we 4-bet the turn and Vill just flats. However, if Vill just flats us otf, I think it's ok to barrel turn/river, if the board texture gets scary enough that we think we can get Vill off an overpair.

05-12-2014 , 09:59 AM

#32

just_grindin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,263

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBaconWarrior

I assume you like the check back bc we paired our 7 so we have disuised showdown value vs villain's unpaired overcard range?

If that is the case I see what you're saying here but I still defend the position that this hand on this board does so well against anything in villain's range willing to stack off on the flop (besides sets obv) that it's criminal not to bet to gii.

I'd rather check back something that has showdown value but who's equity is likely to not change drastically by the turn.

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05-12-2014 , 01:29 PM

#33

TheBaconWarrior

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 889

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_grindin

I assume you like the check back bc we paired our 7 so we have disuised showdown value vs villain's unpaired overcard range?

You've missed the point. The check back has merit because our range when we 3bet/call preflop. The equity of this one single hand is a minute consideration when making the flop decision.

With that said what range does villain 4bet pre then check this flop with? Villain should c-bet flop to stop us from realizing our equity (by checking back our junk-filled range) since his range is stronger.
So in actuality, we should bet flop. A ton.

05-12-2014 , 01:45 PM

#34

just_grindin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,263

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBaconWarrior

No I perfectly understand what you're saying. I'm saying that this hand no longer belongs in the 'junk' category because of all the equity we have here on this flop with this hand. It very clearly belongs in your value bet range on the flop.

Sure we have to have a range strategy for our junk but the way you framed your previous post made it sound like you thought this hand belonged in a check back range, which made no sense to me.

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05-12-2014 , 04:55 PM

#35

TheBaconWarrior

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 889

I never said this hand was junk, quite the opposite actually.

I initially advocated x/b to protect the rest of our x/b range, which will be weak if we value bet on a relatively dry flop.

But I forget that this isn't applicable when villain checks after the 4bet.

05-12-2014 , 05:24 PM

#36

omgonedirection

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 118

I would flat pre. Would also be betting the flop. Fold river.

05-12-2014 , 05:25 PM

#37

SuperNutsFR

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 83

Bet flop....

05-13-2014 , 03:32 PM

#38

Lunestar

stranger

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7

This is no-limit, not omaha... should definitely bet flop looking to 4-bet all in here. Should probably 3-bet turn to figure out where you are. Then bluff river.

05-14-2014 , 08:27 AM

#39

Rhoby

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 73

I'd flat flop cuz it's always nice to have some kind of FD in your checkback-range.
But does it make any difference when we are in a 4b pot?

05-14-2014 , 01:43 PM

#40

just_grindin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoby

I'd flat flop cuz it's always nice to have some kind of FD in your checkback-range.
But does it make any difference when we are in a 4b pot?

2 reasons: lower SPR with a hand that has a ton of equity on this flop.
SB checked even though he was the aggressor.

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05-14-2014 , 02:43 PM

#41

Rhoby

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_grindin

2 reasons: lower SPR with a hand that has a ton of equity on this flop.
SB checked even though he was the aggressor.

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SPR?

SB might've checked a hand like TT/99/88. So we might not have the best hand if we check (if thats what you mean). But yeah I see us barrelling him off those hands with our equity since we're in position here.

I have no idea if SB can check-call a weak TP, which he might go for three streets of c/c. Depends really on what he does

05-14-2014 , 04:41 PM

#42

just_grindin

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,263

Stack to pot ratio (SPR).

Because this hand has a ton of value on this flop it's easy to get stacks in and we should want to do that with the equity we have.

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