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I want to call god damnit! I want to call god damnit!

09-08-2009 , 10:42 PM
Playing 10-handed 1/2 game with $200 effective stacks.
No history available at the moment but the table is not particularly tough.

EP raises to $7 and only I call in the CO with 55

Flop: ($17) 866

check, I bet $12 and villian calls.

Turn: ($41.00) 8664

check and I bet $27. Villian tanks and then raises to $98.50 and I want to call so bad!

What hands/range do you pot villian on and is this work a call/push?
09-08-2009 , 10:51 PM
100% fold always and the turn bet is questionable
09-08-2009 , 10:56 PM
You're never ever good here...
09-08-2009 , 11:09 PM
thats pretty much a line i'll take at the casino fairly often against aggro stations who always wanna see... so fold. without some very unusual read way -EV.
09-09-2009 , 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaadk09
thats pretty much a line i'll take at the casino fairly often against aggro stations who always wanna see... so fold. without some very unusual read way -EV.
So true.

Well I folded but it just seemed a bit weak tight to me. I was thinking at the time he could have had two high cards and picked up a FD on the turn.

Any ideas of what range of hands plays this way?
09-09-2009 , 01:02 AM
6x/boat and FD's are really the only things that play this way.
09-09-2009 , 02:08 AM
Static, you're right that he could be doing this with a draw or possibly even overs, but the issue is "how often"? As I said, barring some unusual read, villain's line generally indicates real strength and sticking around with 55 is frankly horrendous (not trying to troll or anything). It's okay to take pride in a fold now and again! I don't know where you play but at my casino players making such check calls followed by check-raises should set off alarm bells in your head given their generally passive nature. If you are suspicious, take note, watch intently for some showdowns involving villain. I notice people playing live tend to think they're being bluffed far more often than they actually are. Instead of assuming you're being bluffed until proven otherwise, I try and assume each player (minus those min-buying in, drunk, etc) is fairly rational and is attempting to play decently until proven otherwise.
09-09-2009 , 04:21 AM
I don't like your turn bet. As played meh, I guess fold. If he wanted to bluff the flush draw he'd do it on the flop more often.
09-09-2009 , 06:07 AM
As mentioned before, check behind the turn.

As played you canīt call (b/c you had to call the expected push on the river, which you donīt want to do ...) and you canīt push (due to having 0% FE against better hands), this leaves only one possibility ... but anyway, even without thinking about it that way - donīt worry, youīre behind.

- Tack -
09-09-2009 , 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaadk09
Static, you're right that he could be doing this with a draw or possibly even overs, but the issue is "how often"? As I said, barring some unusual read, villain's line generally indicates real strength and sticking around with 55 is frankly horrendous (not trying to troll or anything). It's okay to take pride in a fold now and again! I don't know where you play but at my casino players making such check calls followed by check-raises should set off alarm bells in your head given their generally passive nature. If you are suspicious, take note, watch intently for some showdowns involving villain. I notice people playing live tend to think they're being bluffed far more often than they actually are. Instead of assuming you're being bluffed until proven otherwise, I try and assume each player (minus those min-buying in, drunk, etc) is fairly rational and is attempting to play decently until proven otherwise.
Well said. Thanks
09-09-2009 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry
As mentioned before, check behind the turn.

As played you canīt call (b/c you had to call the expected push on the river, which you donīt want to do ...) and you canīt push (due to having 0% FE against better hands), this leaves only one possibility ... but anyway, even without thinking about it that way - donīt worry, youīre behind.

- Tack -
Can you go over the reasons for checking the turn. At the time I was betting for value (I actually thought my hand was best) and I was trying to prevent villian from getting a free card whether he had overs or one of the 2 possible flush draws. Also I feel like if I check the turn I give villian the OK to try and run a river bluff on me.

Clearly my line of reasoning is a little off from the rest of you guys so I'm hoping you can just go over why the turn is "meh". Is the flop bet standard?
09-09-2009 , 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StaticVoid
Can you go over the reasons for checking the turn. At the time I was betting for value (I actually thought my hand was best) and I was trying to prevent villian from getting a free card whether he had overs or one of the 2 possible flush draws. Also I feel like if I check the turn I give villian the OK to try and run a river bluff on me.

Clearly my line of reasoning is a little off from the rest of you guys so I'm hoping you can just go over why the turn is "meh". Is the flop bet standard?
There's very few hands that you are ahead of that will call both your flop bet and your turn bet. I would probably usually check flop, but if I bet, I'd check turn. I don't want to/can't go for three streets of value with 55. Also, as a general rule, if you hate a raise and especially if you are not sure what to do when you get raised, then your bet is questionable.
09-09-2009 , 10:48 AM
Throw your cards on the next trash u find
09-09-2009 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki7
There's very few hands that you are ahead of that will call both your flop bet and your turn bet. I would probably usually check flop, but if I bet, I'd check turn. I don't want to/can't go for three streets of value with 55. Also, as a general rule, if you hate a raise and especially if you are not sure what to do when you get raised, then your bet is questionable.
This, well said.
09-09-2009 , 12:15 PM
u r never good after his check raise. easy fold imo.

why do u bet the turn? theres really no reason to bet there. u have third pair. what kind of pot do u want with third pair? a big one or a small one? the good thing about position is that it allows you to decide the size of the pot, so use it. big hand --> big pot --> bet. small hand --> small pot --> check behind.

you dont get any value by betting and he doesnt c/f the turn after he called the flop.

      
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