Flush v Fish - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Flush v Fish

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11-17-2008 , 01:20 AM

ofishstix

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,171

fish is 37/12/1-2ish
he has called a ton preflop and has called one barrel a bunch and two barrels a bunch but we never went to showdown in any substantial pot?

so, sup?

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): $229.75
BB: $111.60
UTG: $349.00
CO: $187.00
BTN: $211.55

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is SB with J

2 folds, BTN calls $2, Hero calls $1, BB checks

Flop: ($6.00) 4

(3 players)
Hero bets $4, BB folds, BTN raises to $14, Hero raises to $34, BTN calls $20

Turn: ($74.00) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $53, BTN calls $53

River: ($180.00) 9

(2 players)

122 behind!

11-17-2008 , 01:23 AM

corsakh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 12,149

Come on man, whats up with your betsizing.

11-17-2008 , 01:24 AM

BGnight

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10,315

Betting seems fine, but shoving seems like you're blowing him off smaller spades or stubborn two pair, etc...
I'm sure even being a fish he realizes this is a limped pot and you must have something somewhat strong given action, so shoving is over repping your hand I think.
Do you think a 1/3 psb on river would ever induce a bluff?

11-17-2008 , 01:24 AM

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

fold pre, raise to at least 50 on the flop so you can shove the turn, as played c/f river

11-17-2008 , 01:25 AM

pdoran10

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,333

flop bet sizing is wtf gaybad.
oh and id blocker the river for like 60. he calls with his lower spades and never bluff raisies.

11-17-2008 , 01:26 AM

BGnight

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10,315

jesus, bet sizing is not why he posted this hand guys, and it's far from bad.

ur a bunch of gheys

11-17-2008 , 01:27 AM

pdoran10

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGnight

jesus, bet sizing is not why he posted this hand guys

ur a bunch of gheys

yeah f trying to get people make better bet sizes when it seems appropriate.

THATS f gay!

11-17-2008 , 01:28 AM

BGnight

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10,315

UR f gay!

got em!

11-17-2008 , 01:29 AM

BGnight

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 10,315

omg he set up a 2/3 psb on river.

HOW TERRIBAD!

11-17-2008 , 01:29 AM

#10

ofishstix

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,171

yeah, setting up a sweet bet bet bet line for a limped pot vs a fish who likes to call seems mad gay!

also, wtf@folding preflop...the fish limps button and you fold suited jacks?

11-17-2008 , 01:31 AM

#11

Charles3Mil

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 173

blocking bet...

11-17-2008 , 01:35 AM

#12

ofishstix

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkwired

fold pre, raise to at least 50 on the flop so you can shove the turn, as played c/f river

lol, trying to get him to fold an ace?
he's not a reg, he's a fish

11-17-2008 , 01:36 AM

#13

mdom88

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,833

Usually when fish raise this sort of flop, they have something that they're looking to felt. Definitely raise bigger on the flop.

I think preflop is good unless BB is a good player

As played, hmmmm.... I actuallly think you're like hardly ever beat here, but it's gonna be hard to get a ton of value either way. C/c is fine if he's spazzy, but I think given that he has been folding a lot of rivers apparently in decent sized pots, he will be looking you up here more often than not if you bet. So I'd bet 75$

11-17-2008 , 01:57 AM

#14

carrotsnake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,692

lol, hands fine, c/f river, or bet something incredibly lame like 20, but I hink c/f > than that

11-17-2008 , 03:02 AM

#15

bobboufl11

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,329

shoves.

would you try to bluff shove if you knew Villain had a set or the 5 of spades?

11-17-2008 , 04:45 AM

#16

vancouverspecial

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,098

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGnight

omg he set up a 2/3 psb on river.

HOW TERRIBAD!

bet sizing is pretty much perfect

11-17-2008 , 04:57 AM

#17

corsakh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 12,149

Give me a range a of hands that he calls 34 but folds to 44.

11-17-2008 , 05:15 AM

#18

vancouverspecial

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,098

We have 3 streets of betting to maneuver our stack into the pot, and betting anymore is unnecessary unless you're planning to shove the turn.

I can't and won't list a range, but if you're implying that the fold equity of $44 = the fold equity of $33 this can't be true.

11-17-2008 , 05:28 AM

#19

corsakh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 12,149

Are you sure? I think we can construct situations and ranges where a bigger bet yields less FE than a smaller one.

And its not even the point. Pot management is not just about milking fish . Its correlated to ranges and different turn/river outcomes. If he has Ks or an ace, he may be calling any size raise on the flop. And any size bet on the turn. But its not true about the river and you loose tons of value against a large chunk of his range.

Last edited by corsakh; 11-17-2008 at 05:38 AM.

11-17-2008 , 05:38 AM

#20

vancouverspecial

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,098

ok. this isn't one of them

11-17-2008 , 05:39 AM

#21

corsakh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 12,149

I guess if "I has nuts hence half pot + half pot + half pot = all in!" is all you see I will have to take your word for it.
ps Out of pure curiosity, are you playing 44 the same and why / why not?

11-17-2008 , 07:26 AM

#22

dirtylobster

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,902

PM Fonkey for coaching!

11-17-2008 , 11:06 AM

#23

spivey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9,751

c/f river.

i do think making flop and turn larger is optimal, fishies rarely raise this flop with something they're not willing to felt unless it's a pure bluff (in which case, it doesn't matter).

also, i think this is a good situation where you don't want cards that kill your action - and this is a board where a lot of cards can kill your action if villain has a set/2 pair/lower flush. and he doesn't always shove with all of them, but he isn't folding them unless a spade rolls off.