hi, i'm new on 2p2. this hand is a bit silly really - just thought i'd throw it out there as a way of introducing myself. not real reads on villain. hes playing 22 18 with 75%cbet, 60% turn bet over a few hundred hands. no history.

nh

Don't see any need to shove, you have enough show down value to just call.

shoving seems spew imo.as poster above said u have showdown vaule on river.as played once u get to river i wud be considering 1.fold 2.call.3 raise. as your options.

Def like the shove, his call is horrible. Follow him around and adjust accordingly.

I'm gone for a couple of years and this is what happens to 2p2?

what hands are you expecting him to fold that you don't already beat?

He's not folding a K. You shove so that he folds precisely QQ? If he even bets it?

Whenever he folds you were good anyway

pre is losing money unless you are an absolute postflop baws

flop is just not good, he will bet so many turns there. even if you turn like K:diamonds: you ain't happy. if he checks turn he is check calling. floating is kinda brutal really. he just bet 10/17, so Ill give you that as an excuse.

turn

river, his sizing picks up a bit. not sure what it means. He has like 8 - 20 nut combos that never fold. He has just about that many better hands that always fold like AJ/QQ. So it basically comes down to two things. What does he do with his KT KJ KQ AK AA, and how many 9x / QT does he open UT. (if you can't answer those your preflop call is bad)

I'm interested as to why you feel playing JTs on the button in position is losing money here. I also like the fact that I am closing the action here on the BTN inviting the blinds to come in and play a multiway pot in position. I call with this hand too. I'm not saying I am right at all. I am just interested into your thought process as to why this is a losing play. You might be on to something.

I feel most regs call in this spot. Then again, we might just all be wrong.

pre is easily a fold, flop as well

river is meh. you don't rep a K at all imo, nor a Jx. you really only rep 9x, 99, 55 (maybe not even 55 nor certain 9x's), JJ and KK...and maybe some QT. and you may not even have that many 9x's vs his utg open. However, I wouldn't expect someone to have many double floats or hands like your JT here particularly in these positions. Once again you rep a narrow range and boats are hard to flop... these are good positions to try this though... I also think a lot of regs now know to turn their hands into bluffs in spots really similar to this/exactly like it, so then it becomes a leveling war, does he know you know it's a good spot to bluff/thinks you're capable of this or does he think you're just playing the nuts?

my perceived range after the turn should be some combos of 77,88,TT the occasional jack that floated flop+ my big hands (some combos of 98s+97s+J9s, 9Ts, 55, 99). Provided he expects me to jam my 9x hands i expect him to fold anything weaker than a 9 the majority of the time. With no history he has no reason to expect any shenanigans.

omg at JTs being a fold preflop on the button

What are the thoughts about making it like 65ish on turn?

why do you think that that's a good thing? would you rather have the blinds fold or call?

and you are also inviting the blinds to sq a tad wider than they would 3b vs UT.

JTs has 35-40% equity vs UT's range, the only way to compensate that big equity disadvantage is outplaying the guy postflop which gonna gonna be tough against a range thats like aces and ace king

what are you smoking? UTG is not some 75-year old man at a live table.

You may have no history but you are both tags and you rep a ridiculous range. No one's ever folding a hand that they were value betting river with here.

Personally I think his river value bet was ridonkulously bad but thankfully you rewarded him for it so he'll convince himself it was good and keep doing dumb **** like that.

way to contradict yourself in two consecutive posts in a row

live people open >15% 4 off the button yeah. winning 6maxers do not.
live people are bad at vbetting thin and at folding good hands, meaning they can't vbet/fold correctly on both ends

AJ is a bad river bet only if his opening range is <20% and villains BT cc is real tight

I just smoke terrible posters

wait so 15% is this?

If you want to be a smart ass you should probably try to make sure that your previous post didn't say something moronic.

if dude stacks off with AJ on this board run out, how can flatting JTs to make two pair+ be bad?

this makes absolutely no sense to me sorry homie, the angry hobbit is owning you ITT

i think bet/calling this river even with AK (which is the same think as AJ) is bad with no reads and no dynamic. i'd say floating flop is probably FPS. maybe OP is bad enough to not realize he had a crazy dynamic with villain and it makes his bet/call with AJ on this river good, but with no dynamic i think it is awful

you don't understand what I am saying at all. I totally mean UT raises AK and AA only yeah that's totally it. wtf

that's not a valid way to argue. If hero jams bluff JTs on the river and gets super owned, how can he ever flat that hand preflop?


If you dont understand don't comment unless you are asking a question.

It surprises me to see this as I thought this was a relatively standard btn coldcall. Are you saying that unless you are very competent postflop you should be coldcalling extremely tightly overall, even from btn? Also, what if villains preflop sizing was smaller like 2.5x? Does that make it more inviting to call with hands like JTs and 44?

JTs on the button *after a UTG raise* you are behind soooo often it isnt even funny

flatting pre is really standard. I'm making 146bb/100 flatting JTs OTB vs EP openers over a big sample. Sometimes I'll fold if UTG is especially tight

I don't know why so many of these discussions comes down to some people saying it's bad, other people say it's good, while the people in the bad group don't have anything to back up their claims other than some contrived bits of analysis.

Filter your database. If you're losing with this hand maybe the games you play in or your competence level postflop makes it unprofitable. If you're winning keep doing it.

villains play is good/standard ur play up until the flop is good, as played call river, folding is closer than jamming, we just dont have any or shall i say anywhere near enough value combos.