Do you Cbet All In with AK in 4bet pot OOP? - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Do you Cbet All In with AK in 4bet pot OOP?

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08-19-2009 , 05:57 PM

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

This is a hand from 50NL but I've sinced moved up to 100NL and would like advice from this forum rather than the micro donks.

only played 11 hands with villain but he already 3bet me and seems aggro.

Simple question, all in cbet or not?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP) ($51.85)
CO ($68.80)
Button ($59.60)
SB ($51.75)
BB ($70.50)
UTG ($10.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A

, K

1 fold, Hero bets $1.75, 1 fold, Button raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero raises to $19.75, Button calls $11.75

Flop: ($40.25) 5

, 7

, 4

(2 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero

08-19-2009 , 06:01 PM

carnivalhobo

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,994

4bet sizing sucks ape testes

as played shove now although c/c might be better with a real read.

08-19-2009 , 06:02 PM

abrblja

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 627

you're 4bet is too big imho, better to 4bet to like 15$ and c/f flop ?
carnival : what is the villan foldin to a shove on the flop ?

08-19-2009 , 06:17 PM

wdead

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08-19-2009 , 06:22 PM

Chainsaw3

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 494

Shove pre

08-19-2009 , 06:25 PM

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

i can see that 4bet size is too big but at 15 he only has to call 7

08-19-2009 , 06:28 PM

carnivalhobo

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meh i thought we were getting better pot odds on a shove, thats why these big 4bets are so bad, because we are actually getting to a point were we have enoguh equity even against a tight range to continue. upon further review c/f is probably better, but i swear these guys manage to insta fold when i jam aces here. what range do you assume for a guy who flats a 40bb 4bet?

08-19-2009 , 06:29 PM

carnivalhobo

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bull City Degen

i can see that 4bet size is too big but at 15 he only has to call 7

why is that a problem?

i think jamming is better when they make these big 3bets. but id like to hear why you think him only needing to call 7 is a problem.

08-19-2009 , 06:31 PM

Kevin8423

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,984

His 3bet was huge too which is why it's a little awkward, but yeah 16bbs -> 30bbs is fairly standard.

08-19-2009 , 06:32 PM

#10

thatssosick

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Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,443

no problem with 4bet size shove flop

08-19-2009 , 06:35 PM

#11

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

just seems pointless to 4bet that small when he'll call pretty much everyhting

08-19-2009 , 06:37 PM

#12

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

in hindsight i def wish i jammed

08-19-2009 , 06:38 PM

#13

carnivalhobo

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bull City Degen

just seems pointless to 4bet that small when he'll call pretty much everyhting

so the reason you 4bet is to get people to fold?

08-19-2009 , 06:40 PM

#14

dfhwy7856

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Posts: n/a

small 4bet>jam in this spot. villain is a ****** for flatting 40bb's with any hand

08-19-2009 , 06:40 PM

#15

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

not only to get them to fold but it def adds ev when you get them to fold something that is flipping or tieing

08-19-2009 , 06:45 PM

#16

PartyScout

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Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,776

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivalhobo

4bet sizing sucks ape testes

as played shove now although c/c might be better with a real read.

JD & Coke plz

08-19-2009 , 06:46 PM

#17

oh-nahhh

Donking it

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,040

shove pre

shove flop

that was easy

srsly u have less than a psb on the flop we have to shove basically any flop imo with all that money in the middle

i shove pre personally because of his ******edly huge 3bet size

08-19-2009 , 06:51 PM

#18

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

ok , i agree that shove pre is best.

but as played, does he really call 4 bet with something we are beating on this flop, and is he ever folding something that beats us?

08-19-2009 , 06:55 PM

#19

PeakPerformancePKR

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 65

if villain is fishy than i just shove over his big 3bet. the reason is that fishy player like to call 4bets with many hands, because they know nothing about commitment

Two advantages of this play:
1) weaker player call with dominated hands (AQ; KQ; AJ;...)
2) you avoid tough decisions like this one

as played i see not many advantages of just shoving the flop. Even bad player will fold KQ or QJ / ... and you get called by any pp here.

I check with the intention of calling his shove (with trashy hands) or to check down

08-19-2009 , 07:07 PM

#20

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

so you would never just check/fold as played?

08-19-2009 , 07:12 PM

#21

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

or, to rephrase the question, is 2.3333-1 enough to call and spike A or K?

08-19-2009 , 07:18 PM

#22

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakPerformancePKR

Right, but villain is basically unknown

08-19-2009 , 07:20 PM

#23

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

vs TT, we need 2.7-1 to spike A or K.

If we C/C, were getting 2.33-1.

My question is does he shove something worse enough to offset the discrepancy?

08-19-2009 , 07:54 PM

#24

wdead

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Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6,697

Guys villain flatted a 4b he has a pair c/f

08-19-2009 , 08:27 PM

#25

Bull City Degen

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdead

Guys villain flatted a 4b he has a pair c/f

my point exactly. obviously during the hand i pushed but realized it was wrong in hindsight and started this thread to confirm.

thanks

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