Can I value bet in this spot? - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Can I value bet in this spot?

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01-17-2010 , 11:35 PM

Sjors

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 623

villain 24/17/9 over small sample pretty tag, no history

Can I value bet this board after his checkback on the turn?

Party Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $185.73
CO: $125.44
BTN: $123.87
Hero (SB): $129.03
BB: $264.93
UTG: $109.48

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with Q

4 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3

Flop: ($8.00) 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $5.00, BB raises to $16, Hero calls $11

Turn: ($40.00) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($40.00) 8

(2 players)
Hero?

(also my flop bet too small?)

01-18-2010 , 12:39 AM

shpanko

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 13,924

I certainly wouldn't, what are you looking to get value from?

01-18-2010 , 12:48 AM

_JerryD_

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,292

I just c/fold

01-18-2010 , 02:45 AM

Ez MonEz

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 254

c/f feels gross with the overpair but I think it's the right play. Everything got there.

01-18-2010 , 03:00 AM

1ionu

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 264

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ez MonEz

c/f feels gross with the overpair but I think it's the right play. Everything got there.

01-18-2010 , 03:13 AM

Iron Mic Titan

grinder

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 582

Are we not donking about $30 on the turn?

No way in hell am I giving this kid credit for flopping trips here, ever. He could be doing this with absolute air, and random Jacks, but not a 9.

If he calls, then I c/f river regardless.

01-18-2010 , 04:47 AM

Harlequin99

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 560

How do people feel about putting another raise in on the flop? I think that would be my preffered option, as I am likely going bust anyway should he have trip 9s. Doesn't maximise value from his air range, but that is only a small part of his range...

01-18-2010 , 04:51 AM

Sugar Nut

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 20,917

I like a flop 3bet aswell, in fact I think that a flop 3bet is the BEST way to maximize value from his air range, which I think isn't all that small...

01-18-2010 , 04:56 AM

stupandaus

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,363

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar Nut

I like a flop 3bet aswell, in fact I think that a flop 3bet is the BEST way to maximize value from his air range, which I think isn't all that small...

wtf... flop 3b is the absolute WORST way to maximize value from his air range...

01-18-2010 , 08:27 AM

#10

Sugar Nut

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 20,917

I have a different experience.

I might have a different image though aswell...

01-18-2010 , 08:31 AM

#11

Ijizz

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,651

C/F river Bet turn !

01-18-2010 , 09:32 AM

#12

Sjors

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 623

Why do we like a donk on the turn here? To protect our hand? Doesn't it fold out his air range?

01-18-2010 , 09:50 AM

#13

Wilbur

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,465

River is a C/F. QT and flush draw got there (both of which he would probably play the way he did. His not calling with a worse hand.

01-18-2010 , 10:08 AM

#14

Holdem_lol

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by shpanko

I certainly wouldn't, what are you looking to get value from?

This.

01-18-2010 , 11:16 AM

#15

Greco

old hand

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,564

I'd probably 3bet the flop to be honest.

C/F on the river is good now we are here

01-18-2010 , 12:05 PM

#16

scoop05333

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,367

donk turn, IMO, c/f river

01-18-2010 , 03:33 PM

#17

Ez MonEz

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 254

If we donk turn how are we reacting to a raise? Are we c/fing every river or are there some we c/c?

01-18-2010 , 04:40 PM

#18

Ez MonEz

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 254

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ez MonEz

Are we c/fing every river or are there some we c/c?

To clarify, I mean if we donk turn and get called are we c/fing every river or are there some we call.

01-18-2010 , 06:09 PM

#19

stupandaus

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,363

3betting flop forces him to fold his air and continue with his value hands, which we are flipping against

01-18-2010 , 06:18 PM

#20

Fow

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 116

as played never value bet river is clarily a c/f.i think i would have bet turn.

01-18-2010 , 06:23 PM

#21

_JerryD_

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,292

Wtf is this donk bet turn crap I read here.

It's some seriously results orientated bs because villain did not bet turn + the river happened to be now a horrible card.

Are you seriously telling me that you guys constantly take weird ass lines like calling his raise on flop and donking turn. Even as a standard?

01-19-2010 , 05:31 PM

#22

Sjors

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 623

Quote:

Originally Posted by _JerryD_

My thought exactly, maybe a vsmall percentage of the time I could find a lead on the turn here because its blind vs blind. But I'm probably drinking when I do.

Another question, should villain always bet the river with his air to a check from me? If so, is there any merit in a blocker bet since we can't get any value from his air anyway? (being blind vs blind his range includes air a reasonable percentage of the time) or is this just really stupid because we get called way too often w better?

(he checked back 86dd)

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