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broke w A high...

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02-08-2009 , 11:25 AM

FatKing85

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,260

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($141)
BB ($100)
UTG ($50.79)
UTG+1 ($32.76)
Hero ($104)
BTN ($48.68)

Dealt to Hero K

fold, fold, Hero raises to $4, fold, SB raises to $14, fold, Hero raises to $38, SB calls $24,

FLOP ($77) 3

check, Hero checks,

TURN ($77) 3

SB bets $35, Hero raises to $66.77, SB calls $31.77,

RIVER ($210) 3

villain is 24/20 3bet 10%, fold to 4bet: 45%

can i fold turn here?

02-08-2009 , 11:28 AM

Dzsenaj

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatKing85

FLOP ($77) 3

With less than pot behind I just push the flop.

02-08-2009 , 11:47 AM

FatKing85

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,260

didnt push flop since i kinda see me behind after his preflop action, not to mention his calling range. the interesting thing here was, that i get some equity on the turn

02-08-2009 , 11:59 AM

lemming

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,066

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatKing85

didnt push flop since i kinda see me behind after his preflop action, not to mention his calling range. the interesting thing here was, that i get some equity on the turn

Then for what reasons are you 4betting?

I think turn is a fold, but I'm a nit. I don't like your 4bet size as well... Make it ~28 and go from there. Leaves more room to play postflop, and you want him to call with dominated hands preflop that he will fold to your large 4bet. You are in position, so you don't have to make it that large. Also, smaller 4bet balances out for when you are 4betbluffing and don't need to risk that much IMO.

02-08-2009 , 02:37 PM

tarheeljks

The Dark Knight

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 37,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatKing85

didnt push flop since i kinda see me behind after his preflop action, not to mention his calling range. the interesting thing here was, that i get some equity on the turn

this is inconsitent w/the turn shove. you picked up equity, but you're still behind. that being said you're getting a little better than 1:4 and have 14 outs (the pair outs will generally all be clean) so i think you can call the turn bet and obv fold if you do not improve

i agree 38 is too much, but i don't like the idea of 28 b/c it's going to get flatted too often by JJ/TT type hands, which is fine when we have AA, but not so great when we have AK. i would make it like 32.

02-08-2009 , 04:00 PM

cobby

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,014

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheeljks

THAT!
although i almost never 4bet AK preflop...

02-08-2009 , 04:02 PM

klink10k

banned

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,721

30 is good. and not 4betting AK pf is a huge leak.

02-08-2009 , 04:29 PM

cobby

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,014

Quote:

Originally Posted by klink10k

30 is good. and not 4betting AK pf is a huge leak.

umph, i didnt see the his fold to 4bet stats.
But what if villain had standard 4bet stats? I dont see why it's a huge leak then...

02-08-2009 , 04:33 PM

klink10k

banned

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,721

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobby

umph, i didnt see the his fold to 4bet stats.
But what if villain had standard 4bet stats? I dont see why it's a huge leak then...

cause you need like 10% FE to 4bet AK to get it in for 100bbs, and flatting 3bets with AK is bad.

02-08-2009 , 04:36 PM

#10

spivey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9,751

why is flatting 3bets with AK in position bad?

not that there is anything wrong with 4betting, but flatting is totally fine and probably optimal vs. plenty of players

02-08-2009 , 04:44 PM

#11

cobby

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,014

Quote:

Originally Posted by klink10k

cause you need like 10% FE to 4bet AK to get it in for 100bbs, and flatting 3bets with AK is bad.

You mean, when you 4bet AK, you should get it in on the flop every time?

02-08-2009 , 04:44 PM

#12

klink10k

banned

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,721

what the hell are you talking about.

02-08-2009 , 04:57 PM

#13

Requin

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,636

Cant fold the turn, question is calling or jamming and what to do on river if you call... Dont know the regs enough to say how often they call 4bets with less than premium hands, I'd lean towards calling this and folding the river unimproved.

02-08-2009 , 05:30 PM

#14

cobby

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,014

Quote:

Originally Posted by klink10k

what the hell are you talking about.

You mean, when you 4bet AK, you should get it in on the flop every time?

02-08-2009 , 05:42 PM

#15

klink10k

banned

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,721

who flats 4bets here ever?

02-08-2009 , 06:15 PM

#16

spivey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9,751

what's most ridiculous was he flatted a 4bet to 40bb. it's like he was trying to one up OPs preflop mistake.

as played you definitely can't fold, so it's call or jam. i'd prob just jam if those 4bet fold stats are over a large sample.

02-09-2009 , 12:09 PM

#17

ogabay

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,368

It's not even a small 4 bet...crazy hand.

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