For those of you who missed it, part 1 is here.

Ike, I apologize, this isn't about health insurance (coming soon, though), but it mentions it

You may have recently heard that the value of a college degree isn't what it used to be.

Bull****. Bull**** propagated by Journalists who don't get economics. Here's why.

Basically, it used to be possible to earn a decent living with a high
school degree, and a college degree was a very good investment.
However, recently, the value of a high school degree has plummetted.
Nowadays, a college degree isn't an investment, it's basically become
the minimum bar.

From the 2006 U.S. Census:

2 things are notable about the above. First, a college degree doesn't
get you a lot of scratch, but it's still around the median
U.S. income, whereas the high school degree gets you an income that
basically makes you poor. Second, a collage degree is worth 1.8 times
as much as a high school degree, but a high school degree is worth
only 1.5 times as much as being a drop out.

And there's one little, teeny, tiny detail that this data leaves out:
health insurance. Virtually every one of those $28,645/yr jobs
comes with no health insurance. And let me tell you, health
insurance is ****ing expensive if you have to get it yourself.
Basically, if you ever get cancer (and 80%, yes, EIGHTY ****ING
PERCENT, of males will get prostate cancer at some point), you will
not be able to afford the drugs or treatment you will need without the
insurance.

Yes, I mean you, NL600 reg, even with your hourly win rate. Trust me,
you do NOT want to pay this **** out of pocket.

NOTE: I am not trying to say that you need a day job because of the health insurance. I am just pointing out that difference between the salaries of the high-schooler and the college grad are indeed much bigger than they appear. By the way, if you are a poker pro and aren't covered by your parents, get health insurance. No, really. Now.

Here's another teeny detail that the census data leaves out: College
grads live longer. A high-school dropout is 4.4 times more likely
than a college grad to die prematurely. This is predominantly from
accidents, suicides, and cancer. If you think about this hard, it
shouldn't be difficult to put 2 + 2 together; jobs for high-schoolers
and dropouts are blue-collar jobs. Work place accidents will be more
common, bodily wear and tear from labor-intensive work will have an effect on
your health, and lack of health insurance will keep you from visiting
the doc to find/identify health problems before it's too late.

So, the lower life expectancy means not only that you earn half as
much per year, you also earn fewer years of it (putting aside any
attempt to quantify the economic value of simply being alive).

And there's another, BIG detail, that the census data leaves out:
College grads tend to advance in their careers, and earn wage
increases over a lifetime that outpace inflation. High school grads,
on the other hand, tend to work in unionized environments or labor
intensive jobs without advancing their careers.

In poker terms, variance among high-school grads earnings is very low,
and variance among college-grads is very high (and correllated
directly with age/experience). That is, your average 50-year old high
school grad probably earns $30k, but your average 50-year old college
grad may earn $80k, not $50k. I'd also love to see gender accounted
for: college graduate women are far more likely to earn $0 (because
they are married to wealthier spouses and have a higher household
income and can afford to stay at home with the kids), which
further accentuates that the earnings ceiling is far, far higher for a
college grad.

I know some of you are dropping out of college because you are earning
3 times (or more) what a college grad makes. I seriously urge you to
reconsider. Anyone who can beat NL100+ is absolutely, positively,
smart enough to earn a college degree. In fact, I can pretty much
guarantee you that you are smarter than the average person who gets a
college degree. In particular, you are smart in the way that
really matters: the ability to think anlytically. Critical
thinking is a skill set that, frankly, 90% of undergraduate classes
(and a good deal of graduate classes) do not require, but that
virtually every employer wants its employees to be good at. (This is
also quite likely the very reason that so many of you are really
****ing bored at school). But trust me when I tell you that you won't
ever convince somebody in an interview that you are really
smart. Well, **** it, you won't even get the chance to
interview and prove it without the college degree.

If you are one of those guys considering dropping out, DON'T.
Instead, peruse the university curriculum and pick some random class
in something way outside your major that just sounds fun. Here's the
thing, if you are really earning $50k+ with poker, you have a degree
of financial freedom that gives you the power to re-think why you are
getting your major. I mean, when you went into it, it was probably
because you thought it would lead to a career that can make some
money, as opposed to that useless philosophy or art history degree,
right? Well, who ****ing cares now?!? You've got poker to make
money! Now you can just study what you WANT to!

Here's where I will tell you the opposite of what most boring old
geezers will tell you: You're major does not mean ****ing squat. My
wife just graduated from one of the top 5 medical schools in the
country. Among her best friends? A guy who graduated with honors
who's going into anesthesiology who had an undergrad degree in (wait
for it) theology and theatre. A woman who's entering general surgery
whose undergrad was in art history. A guy who's undergrad was in
Economics who is entering psychiatry. Your undergrad degree does not
matter. The fact that you GOT a degree does. Getting an undergrad
degree is your ticket to getting a graduate degree later if you want
one, and otherwise to convincing all the other college graduates in
the world that you have enough smarts and perserverance to get
something done.

Trust me, you WILL get bored with poker. Don't be one of those guys
that can't do anything else in life. Being stuck playing poker when
you hate it isn't any better than being stuck in some office job that
you hate (which is probably the fate you imagine with finishing
college, and why you avoid it so much). Having said that, TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF YOUR MONEY. Don't feel trapped in some lame ass major
because you think that's what you need to get a certain type of
job. Study whatever the **** you WANT to study. Don't do stuff that
bores you. Just get that degree.

first

not in college, never went FWIW

the health insurance thing varies greatly by state, some states its very cheap, ~150 a month, in mine it's ~550 a month, but considering thats like 6 hours of playing nl200 after tax so it's not a huge deal. and def not having it is massive -EV.

college isn't for everyone, there are other ways to make a good living and this is especially true if by the time you are done with poker you have a lot of capital saved up.

i think this advice really applies most if you want a job. the more entrepreneurial may not need this and only stay in college for other reasons than they want backup to get employed later.

Well done again sir.

I really want to compliment the way you tailer the lessens to your audience, "young intelligent poker players."

Will any of these lessons speak to those in our mid 20's with a high paying job they are thinking about quiting?

the prostate cancer thing is kinda scary

What does that ~550 turn into by the time you are nearing 40, married w/ some kids?

very very good. looks like i'm staying in school dad.

well obv more but considering theres a good chance I make more than I currently do, my wife works and is covered or that I live in a state where its significantly cheaper I don't think thats a huge deal

I will have to disagree with parts of this post. I think it may be +EV to not have health insurance/have minimum coverage.

For sure, its just stuff to consider. I think a lot of us, (at least me) can be guilty of looking short term. Without improving your game and moving up, poker can reach a static income level. Even if most working stiffs are averaging a 4% raise, at least its moving up.

Think of a player that does not move up from 200NL. Outside of playing more hands, he can expect to make the same income every year for the rest of his life, and inflation is ugly.

The lesson I am taking from this is you don't know what the future brings, and the best thing you can always have is options. A college degree costs you very little at a young age in terms of time, and can greatly increase your personal experiences and options in the future. You very rarely hear someone complain that they got a degree.

I work for a biotech company researching prostate cancer specifically. It IS scary let me tell you. And the options right now for men who unfortunately have this kiss of death are pretty minimal and very toxic (low quality of life when on treatment).

Sounds pretty lame but getting your physical regularly is important for good health... and spotting detrimental diseases early like prostate cancer.

I agree that point is debatable until you get married or have children.

This is where I call bull**** again.

Ya, you don't need a college degree to be an auto mechanic, or a carpenter, or many other worthy jobs.

But a college degree does not, in any way, hinder your ability to do these things either.

And if you think the college degree won't help you in that future capital investment you are considering, then, again, I call bull****. And, FWIW, take a finance class and learn about "leverage" and you may discover that using your own capital to start a business is often not as profitable as using someone elses -- at which point we get back to it being really important to have some kind of certificate that vouches for your intelligence/trustworthiness/etc, like a college degree.

And, honestly, no insult intended at all, but people who have not gone to college are not allowed to pass judgment on whether or not a college degree is useful -- by definition. How can you compare? Do you have an alternate universe version of yourself with a college degree who is not better off? The question is not "Am I doing fine?" but "Could I be doing even better?"

Now, even if I concede to you that the education is worthless (I don't; it isn't), there's still the matter of the little piece of paper that a huge chunk of society thinks is worth a lot. This opens doors. You can shake your fists at the heavens about how stupid that is all you want, but it won't change things.

Having only minimum catastrophic coverage when single is debatable, having no coverage is really not debatable.

I sense a Pascal quote coming....

I might even agree with you intellectually, but this is one of those areas where I would not want to push small edges, ya know?

Furthermore, if you are a woman, or are married to one who isn't insuring herself, this statement is just completely false, for numerous reasons.

Haha, the joke among some of my liberal studies (aka elementary school teacher degree) friends in school was that they're all really at college to get their MRS degree (GET IT?).

The med school example is a little weak just because everyone's real major there is the practice of medicine, not what they happened to study in undergrad. This really depends on the specialization required in the type of job you want - I don't know anyone at my company with a degree in a field other than computer science. One of the best comp sci professors at my school got his undergrad degree in English, but later got his PhD in comp sci.

Also, adding these posts to the Master Sticky imo.


Is prostate cancer really that scary? My dad was diagnosed with it recently and had surgery where they implanted some radioactive seeds around the cancer, supposedly it's not that invasive, has few side effects (he mentioned decreased sex drive or something but said "...you know, when you're my age, sex really isn't that important anymore"), and he's fine now. He really downplayed the whole thing and made it sound like a non-issue, I dunno, maybe he and my mom just didn't want me and my sister to freak out about it.

Yay, I've got this part of the series taken care of, more please.

as a recent college grad who is now a complete degen, I am still so glad i got the degree and can fall back on it whenever i want....BUT, college to me wasnt about getting a degree. I learned a ton about myself and the direction I wanted to go in life, all while having so much fun it was scary. The only downside to college is how boring life is when you graduate, i dunno, maybe im just doing it wrong.

not saying it hinders your ability because it obviously doesn't but for some people paying for college is an issue or that they would rather spend 4 years of their life doing something else or they want to take advantage of an opportunity that may only be around when they are college age and just end up never going back

im aware that it open doors but if you are going to be self-employed your entire life not going to college/dropping out makes a lot more sense than if you plan on having a job your entire life

i strongly disagree about the part that people who didn't go to college can't pass judgment, both of us will have our own biases and for all you know you could have ended up in a better place if you hadn't gone to college. it's obviously not likely but neither of us can know how things would turn out.

as to the thing with health insurance that clowntable said, while health insurance may be -EV in terms of absolute costs, it definitely reduces financial variance and i think gambling with your health is not a great idea.

also if i didnt go to college i probably would have never: slept with alot of hot (and not hot) girls, drank my own vomit, started 2 fires in our house (cannonshot fireworks inside ftw), stayed up all night learning things im actually interested in, stayed up all night shooting the **** with friends when i should have been studying, or prob learn poker.

So not true. My wife was in BioChem doing research before she decided she hated it and went into medicine. The general surgeon with the art history major was a professional photographer for 8 years before med school. The guy with the the theology degree thought he was going to be a pastor before he found out that religion sucks.

These aren't very rare stories, either, at least at top institutions. "Pre-med" doesn't really mean anything other than a few science classes you've got to take and undergrad has virtually nothing to do with anything you will learn in med school, beyond chemistry and anatomy.

As to your other point, yeah, compsci is a bit different -- if you want a job as a developer, it's a must, but this has only become true in the last 10 years as the field has evolved a lot. This is one of the few undergrad degrees that imparts a lot of specialized knowledge.

The cancer is not that scary, nor is the treatment for it. But it is expensive if you are not insured.

What's scary is that it is so common, and hell, that's just one type of cancer. Testicular cancer is also not all that rare (but is more scary, the survival rate is about 50%).

I merely used its prevalence to point out to the younguns that they are not as invulnerable as they always think they are

Ahhhhh you aren't listening

I know things because I went to college. I am smarter than I was before. I also know that these things are not random tidbits that I would have stumbled on otherwise. I'm not talking about fate here. I am saying that the knowledge I acquired there is useful, and I am saying that you are not in a position to evaluate the usefulness of that knowledge, because you didn't go and you didn't learn it (again, this is not an attempt to insult you or imply that you are stupid).

Again, I am not talking about evaluating the worth of our life choices, I am talking about evaluating the worth of the knowledge that a college degree imparts you. Many people voice all kinds of opinions about this, and I've met a lot of people that did not go to college and yet who tried to tell me what I learned there. They were always wrong. You are too.

There is a ton of bull**** in college, don't get me wrong, but there was also a ton of stuff that added a lot of value to my life. I am quite confident about the value of that knowledge, because I remember what a tool the 17-year old me was, even after accounting for the distortions of the generation gap.

Certainly the time-value of money that you touch on is important, but, again, anyone who's taken a finance class will recognize the the four years that you get work while the college grad pays for school aren't going to come anywhere near making up for the lot wages later. And, for poker players, who can work on a very flexible schedule, the opportunity costs of college are truly negligibly low.

I appreciate the effort of the OP, but disagree with most of it

I have different end goals for my life than most

lol i'm not sure why you think i'm trying to tell you what you learned there. im not saying college was a waste of your time, i have no idea what your college experience was like.

all i'm trying to say is that, to use a poker analogy, for some people the life EV of not going to college is as high or higher than going. and that this small group of people is more likely to be the entrepreneurial type. i do think that most reasonably intelligent people are better off going to college but that this is not true 100% of the time.

Only until you fall out of a window at a college kegger because you're too high and break your arm. Then you're royally ****ed.