AQo 3way flopped TP - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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AQo 3way flopped TP

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10-03-2009 , 12:05 PM

Lord_Ferus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,805

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

SB ($215.60)
Hero (BB) ($225.00)
UTG ($150)
Button ($198.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, A

Hero bets $7.00, UTG calls $5.00, 1 fold, SB calls $5.00

Flop: ($21.00) A

, 10

, 8

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $16.50, UTG calls $16.50, SB calls $16.50

Turn: ($70.50) J

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $60, 1 fold, Hero folds?

Hey guys.. I am a little bit lost in that spot and looking forward for your replies.. the other villain was a station and my image is solid TAG.

Doing some stove myself.. but I am not sure about Villains range in this spot..

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

3,344 games 0.025 secs 133,760 games/sec

Board: Ah Ts 8s Jd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.205% 34.27% 04.93% 1146 165.00 { AsQh }
Hand 1: 60.795% 55.86% 04.93% 1868 165.00 { TT+, 88, A8s+, KQs, KsJs, QsJs, JTs, Js9s, 9s7s, AQo+, AcJs, AdJs, AhJs, AsJc, AsJd, AsJh, ATo, KQo, KcJs, KdJs, KhJs, KsJc, KsJd, KsJh, JTo }

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10-03-2009 , 12:14 PM

durkadurka33

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,709

Pretty simple fold, imo. He basically pots it 3 way on a very strong board (lots of 2pr/straights). You're cooked.

edit: His range is not nearly that wide...he doesn't do this with J9 type hands.

10-03-2009 , 12:20 PM

wdead

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6,697

Id prefer to bet 45ish myself but as played I would fold, he looks really strong, some str8s and 2pairs got there etc

10-03-2009 , 12:28 PM

Kilillan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 13,783

yeah fold.

10-03-2009 , 01:31 PM

durkadurka33

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,709

I don't like a turn bet because your hand is really quite weak 3 way on the turn and betting commits you.

10-03-2009 , 02:39 PM

lnternet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 12,224

c/f for sure not close. A8 is close.

10-03-2009 , 02:46 PM

BigFiszh

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,949

Fold.

10-03-2009 , 03:25 PM

tripdeuces

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,530

Betting does not commit you.

10-03-2009 , 03:52 PM

durkadurka33

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,709

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripdeuces

Betting does not commit you.

>30% of your stack in is past the commitment threshold.

10-03-2009 , 04:02 PM

#10

tripdeuces

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,530

Why? So i put 3/4 of my stack in a spot where i know if i am beat if raised. So then i have to call. I am all for math but the logic just isn't there.

Last edited by tripdeuces; 10-03-2009 at 04:03 PM. Reason: just as an example not related to the hand

10-03-2009 , 05:39 PM

#11

Lord_Ferus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,805

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripdeuces

Why? So i put 3/4 of my stack in a spot where i know if i am beat if raised. So then i have to call. I am all for math but the logic just isn't there.

wat? didnt get your point

10-03-2009 , 06:10 PM

#12

tripdeuces

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,530

Just saying that if we bet the turn it's not like we have to call since we do it with the notion of a planned b/f.

10-03-2009 , 06:27 PM

#13

durkadurka33

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,709

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripdeuces

Just saying that if we bet the turn it's not like we have to call since we do it with the notion of a planned b/f.

No, because even if you get called, then you put in 1/3 of your stack and you're no better off in your river decision. You have to think past just the turn. If you bet the turn...are you going to c/f the river...or b/f that too?!

This is such a horrible spot that c/f turn is the best play.

10-03-2009 , 06:32 PM

#14

Time 4 Party

journeyman

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 215

don't call down the stations, that's their game bro.

10-03-2009 , 06:41 PM

#15

SameRiverTwice

old hand

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,363

with tpgk and a double gutter vs. a fish with a wide calling range, the turn is a clear bet/call against the fish. You extract value from a wide range of draws and don't put yourself in this stupid spot.

villain is a loose/passive fish with a wide flop calling range... c'mon.

10-03-2009 , 07:44 PM

#16

durkadurka33

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,709

What's his turn calling/raising range, though? That turn card strengthened villain's range.

10-03-2009 , 09:48 PM

#17

BigPoppa

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,216

I missed the double gutter first time I looked.
That makes bet/fold a bad idea for me.

I might call here and open shove a K, Q, or 9 river.

edit: I looked at the math, and his Turn bet is too big to do this unless his range includes some worse Aces which he won't bet on the River. So IDK what to do here. Folding TPGK and a double gutter feels so wrong.

Last edited by BigPoppa; 10-03-2009 at 09:54 PM.

10-03-2009 , 10:05 PM

#18

It's chowda!

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 974

What about betting the turn to get value from rag aces and draws and c/f the river? They're both passive stations so I don't think they would bluff river that often.

10-03-2009 , 10:10 PM

#19

tripdeuces

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,530

thats what i was thinking the whole b/f idea but it's weird because what worse aces does he have here?

10-03-2009 , 10:37 PM

#20

David Toemonster

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 31

snap fold

10-04-2009 , 02:06 AM

#21

It's chowda!

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 974

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripdeuces

thats what i was thinking the whole b/f idea but it's weird because what worse aces does he have here?

Stations like to play any old ace... so hero could get value from A2 on the turn. Also a ton of draws in both their ranges.

10-04-2009 , 02:59 AM

#22

Gaszzzz

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,935

probably just bet the turn like $40?

hands we beat that are calling: QJ, any 2 spades, A9, Ax where x<8, KJ, 89
hands that beat us: sets, JT, Q9, 97, AJ, AT, A8, KQ

Seems like there are about the same number of combos that call that we're beating as those that call that we're folding, which against two droolers seems like a good place for some thin value.
Against a couple of good players this looks like a c/f spot. As played you probably have to fold

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