Hey guys my first post on 2+2 after a long time of lurking. Going through the MSNL and SSNL collections and all. I decided to post!

I recently moved up from .25/.50 as I felt confident enough with my game. Hitting the first limits within the SSNL I felt this great shift of aggression PF. It is also one of the things that hold me back really strongly. Ok I have only played for 2k hands and maybe it's been a tough streak, but I strongly think that people on these limits raise alot harder and 3bet PF more often with mediocre hands.

I don't know if it's more of tilt by calling the 3bets looser, but it was what I felt I had to do. Thus this post. There are alot of posts on 2+2, but I haven't found anything about this. I have read tough that aggression and bluffing goes up the higher stakes you play.

So ok my question really is should you or should you not play more mediocre hands like 67 if you were the original raiser and someone 3bet you? If so can these be played OOP?
I'm so feeling like I'm being put in the nit category by not stepping up.

Now it's not like EVERYONE is 3betting me PF like mad, but I feel this is a huge leak in my game at these stakes.

Anyway thx for the input you guys had for my pokergame.

As you have mentioned, the biggest difference between .25/.50 and .50/1 is pf aggression. You have noticed that some people are very prone to 3bet light. When asking whether you should call a 3bet with 67ss, the most important considerations are position and stack sizes. For 100BB stacks even IP, I think this is a very marginal call at best. All in all, calling 3bets light is not the proper adjustment.

There are 2 ways to adjust to this type of preflop aggression:
1. Raise a tighter range that can profitably call 3bets or 4bet.
2. 4bet light

Personally, I have found that option 2. is not that applicable at NL100 as there are really only a few successful LAG players who are able to 3bet light properly. However, as you move up and games become more and more aggressive preflop, option 2 becomes more and more viable.

It is NOT a weakness to fold to a 3bet when they have been 3betting often! When you have a tough aggressive player to your left with position on you, it is extremely hard to fight back. There is no shame in standing up and finding a better table. There are PLENTY of fish in the sea. Further, there is no shame in not playing back at the player every other hand.

The misadjustment that I made when I first moved up was to fight back WAY too much and I ended up spazzing out a lot and making huge mistakes.

Some other advice, is that if you have not done so already, subscribe to some sort of poker instructional website and watch a few videos focusing on 3bet pots, or post your hands regularly in this strategy forum.

Hey Saimen, I am about a week away from doing exactly what you are doing now-moving from the micros to SSNL.
When I 4B bluff at uNL (rarely, but successfully) I try and pick an opponent whose VPIP and PFR isn't too spread, because generally they are going to shove or fold most of their range. Players at like 38/20 seem to flat a lot, and I'm not ashamed to admit I don't know how to deal with this too well with A4o or w/e, so I try and avoid it.
Also if you are getting 3B a lot you can exploit this by raising some dry flops, like if they are folding 85% and raising out the blinds most of the other 15%, this is another way to exploit them.
With more aggro opponents who have a big gap between VPIP and PFR, this is where I struggle and generally just try and play the cards against them this way, not making too many moves. This obviously needs improving.
BTW if you 4B bluff make sure you're not left in a spot with [more than] 2:1 on your money when he shoves or you will end up having to call. I'd also make your 4B range vv polarised, in other words if you get 5B back, it's either a snap call or fold. So don't be doing it with JJ unless you know he is shoving worse.

Basically I'd just like to say I'm in the same boat as you and GL at SSNL! Take my advice with a pinch of salt though, but those are my though processes atm.

I had abit of the same problem...It is alot different and less ABCish. At first I did fight back way too much. I never found it worth while to 4 bet at 100nl but I do find myself calling serial 3bettors light and beating them with flop and turn play. That is how I managed it and im killing Party 100NL right now.(lolz Party) My stats at 50nl were something like 18/12 and now at 100nl they are 29/18. Now i struggle with NEVER giving button raisers\4bettors or BB\SB 3 bettors credit and I often have to suck out. I will post hands when I get back on my PC from this laptop.

"The misadjustment that I made when I first moved up was to fight back WAY too much and I ended up spazzing out a lot and making huge mistakes."

agree

I would advise folding to the majority of 3bets when you don't have much experience and only calling w/ premium hands. Calling with 67s is pretty bad w/ 100bb effective stacks and no read on how an opponent plays in 3bet pots.

1. Play tight.
2. Don't spazz out, the tagfish will do that for you.
3. Seriously, don't spazz out.
4. Profit.

Also, playing 7-8 tables while surfin 2+2, playing WoW, and fapping to Milf Hunter is definitely not recommended.

LOL...I prefer pornhub.

Dude don't tap on the glass!

U guys are BBVing his strat thread ...200NL is even more aggro

Fair enough...I shall contribute something then.

1) As others said, don't over do it. The other regs usually do a good job of over adjusting and they'll give you so many opportunities to take their money. You should be 3betting for value much more than as bluffs. Also, I don't think 4bet bluffing is all that necessary @ NL100. I play NL200 as my primary game and played some NL100 a couple weeks ago during a downswing...4bet bluffing did not work out well and I was always shown a hand.

2) Position - THIS THIS THIS THIS
The biggest leak that the regs have is 3betting from the blinds too much. They know you're stealing their blinds and they want to make a stand. But, what happens is that they create a large pot out of position and don't know how to play post flop. So you can profitably call in position and out play them on flops. However, if you're not comfortable bluff raising/floating yet, then this is not +EV for you.

You should avoid playing oop as much as you can, and force THEM to play oop. If you're looking to work 3betting into your game start 3betting from the button vs. CO TAG opens. Many times TAG's will fold or 4bet oop, and if they do call you have position to decide if you want to fire or check it back, so it allows you to play very profitably.

pornhub is the nuts fwiw

3-bet pots have their own dynamic. I don't think you can really learn how to play well in 3-bet pots without playing a lot of them. My list of relevant variables, in no particular order, would be: effective stack sizes, your position, your opponent's position, your position relative to your opponent, your image, your opponent's image and of course your opponent's 3-betting range.

Anyway, my tip would be not to call a lot of 3-bets yourself, but rather to concentrate on your own 3-betting. Familiarise yourself with how 3-bet pots play out by learning to broaden your own 3-betting range. Don't go overboard, especially not if you're just moving up, but just be alert to 3-betting possibilities that maybe you wouldn't have considered in the past.

wow this thread was super helpful, im moving up tommorow from 50nl to 100nl and am super pumped. ive already put in 670k hands at the micros (i started with free $5 on stars 8 months ago), so i feel im super ready to make some real money. see you guys at the tables!

I have found success in number 2 and IMO is the best way to counter being three bet from the blinds. This is what I was trying to say in my first post but could not word it. It may take a few thousand hands for u to grasp the bluff raising turns and floating flops part. Just dont force plays you are not comfortable with.

I will look into pornohub...I enjoy empflix u should check it out

What hands would you guys recommend for calling 3bets IP against a loose 3bettor? Hands like KJ is dominated, suited connectors sucks for 100 bbs (obv we start calling a ton once we get deep), so the only thing i can see is pocket pairs, AQ, KQ, maybe AJ?

view: everyone moving up would be better off with not trying to adjust for the first 10k hands

excellent poker and porn information contained in this thread.

This is what fees advocated in some post in the Beginners' Forum about moving up.

for me it totally depends on what i think the raisers range is....If I put him on a pocket pair I will often call with Kh8h and 3 bet his Cbet on like 75 percent of flops. (just an example)

Here are some examples from today...I guess I overplayed A9 2 times today but I thought I had reads. Turns out I was wrong on one but outflopped him in hand 2.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Party Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($152.31)
CO ($218.66)
Mothercanuck ($103.13)
SB ($103)
BB ($107.36)
UTG ($100)

Preflop: Mothercanuck is Button with 9, A.
3 folds, Mothercanuck raises to $4, 1 fold, BB raises to $13, Mothercanuck calls $10.

Flop: ($28) 9, J, Q (2 players)
BB bets $22, Mothercanuck calls $103.13 (All-In), BB folds.

Final Pot: $72
Main Pot: $153.13, returned to Mothercanuck.

Results in white below:
No showdown. Mothercanuck wins $153.13.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Party Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($183.39)
Mothercanuck ($104.53)
SB ($198.44)
BB ($148.91)
UTG ($109.64)
MP ($178.13)

Preflop: Mothercanuck is Button with 9, A.
3 folds, Mothercanuck raises to $4, 1 fold, BB raises to $14, Mothercanuck calls $11.

Flop: ($30) 9, 6, A (2 players)
BB bets $25, Mothercanuck calls $104.53 (All-In), BB calls $64.53.

Turn: ($224.06) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($224.06) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $224.06
Main Pot: $209.06, between Mothercanuck and BB. > Pot won by Mothercanuck ($209.06).
Pot 2: $15, returned to BB.

Results in white below:
BB has As Kh (three of a kind, aces).
Mothercanuck has 9c Ac (full house, aces full of nines).
Outcome: Mothercanuck wins $209.06.

Now this one was tricky...he was tilted/spewy and I OVERPLAYED my hand preflop. But he was such a donk so I shoved flop. LOLZ Party Poker (don't do this..this is a horrid play)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Party Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($115.18)
MP ($132.60)
CO ($277.16)
Button ($136.13)
Mothercanuck ($114.03)
BB ($151.75)

Preflop: Mothercanuck is SB with 3, 4. UTG posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Button raises to $4, Mothercanuck raises to $14.5, 1 fold, Button raises to $29, Mothercanuck calls $18.

Flop: ($62.50) Q, Q, 4 (3 players)
Mothercanuck calls $113.53 (All-In), Button calls $81.03.

Turn: ($257.06) T (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($257.06) 5 (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $257.06
Main Pot: $224.56, between Button and Mothercanuck. > Pot won by Mothercanuck ($224.56).
Pot 2: $32.50, between Button and BB. > Pot won by Button ($32.50).

Results in white below:
Mothercanuck has 3d 4d (two pair, queens and fours).
BB doesn't show.
Button has Ac Kh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Mothercanuck wins $224.56.

He has AK OBV!

Postflop in hand 1 is so gross.

We really should be charging.

Here is an example of how I thought I read his soul like in Hand 3 in previous post...turns out I was wrong n had to suckout...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (4 handed) Party Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($100)
UTG ($100)
Button ($67.01)
Mothercanuck ($100)

Preflop: Mothercanuck is SB with A, 6.
2 folds, Mothercanuck raises to $3.05, BB raises to $12, Mothercanuck calls $9.45.

Flop: ($25.50) T, 6, 7 (2 players)
Mothercanuck checks, BB bets $17, Mothercanuck raises to $45, BB calls $99 (All-In), Mothercanuck calls $99.50 (All-In).

Turn: ($286) T (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($286) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $257.50
Main Pot: $257.50, between BB and Mothercanuck. > Pot won by Mothercanuck ($257.50).
Pot 2: $28.50, returned to Mothercanuck.

Results in white below:
BB has Ks Kc (two pair, kings and tens).
Mothercanuck has Ac 6c (full house, sixes full of tens).
Outcome: Mothercanuck wins $286.

tini 3bet from blinds but still a 3bet from blind

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Party Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($145.20)
BB ($66.91)
UTG ($159.28)
MP ($100)
Mothercanuck ($214.39)
Button ($95.60)

Preflop: Mothercanuck is CO with Q, T.
2 folds, Mothercanuck raises to $4, 2 folds, BB raises to $6, Mothercanuck calls $3.

Flop: ($14) 9, 8, Q (2 players)
BB bets $5, Mothercanuck raises to $20, BB calls $15.

Turn: ($54) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Mothercanuck calls $214.39 (All-In), BB calls $65.91 (All-In).

River: ($334.30) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $185.82
Main Pot: $185.82, between BB and Mothercanuck. > Pot won by Mothercanuck ($185.82).
Pot 2: $148.48, returned to Mothercanuck.

Results in white below:
BB has 9c Ks (two pair, nines and eights).
Mothercanuck has Qh Th (two pair, queens and eights).
Outcome: Mothercanuck wins $334.30.

man, these hands are pretty rough

You're playing so aggro postflop... an intelligent reg is going to start calling you down lightly.