Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
200nl TPTK in a tough spot OOP. I hate OOP sigh. 200nl TPTK in a tough spot OOP. I hate OOP sigh.

06-09-2008 , 01:14 PM
Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: $239.25
BTN: $211.15
SB: $195
BB: $318.40
Hero (UTG): $211.70

Pre-Flop: T A dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $7, CO folds, BTN calls $7, 2 folds

Flop: ($17) T 3 4 (2 Players)
Hero bets $12, BTN raises to $34, Hero??

The villain is an unknown but seems to be playing a solid tag game. I haven't seen him make any ridiculous moves nor have I seen him show down any stupid hands. But then again I was 4-tabling so haven't paid extremely close attention.

I feel like the villain either has a set, draw or is bluffing here. I don't want to reraise here because I'm pwned by his calling/shoving range. However, I also don't want to give him a free card in the event he has a draw. I feel he rarely has a T here because he would have turned KT QT JT 9T etc. into a bluff.

Call or shove?
06-09-2008 , 01:18 PM
I think you should fold. There''s not many turn cards out there that you like and I think villain is definitely firing another barrel if he is bluffing. Having the Ace of hearts changes things a little bit but I would probably just lay this down.
06-09-2008 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPHL
I think you should fold. There''s not many turn cards out there that you like and I think villain is definitely firing another barrel if he is bluffing. Having the Ace of hearts changes things a little bit but I would probably just lay this down.
Bah. I thought of that option too.

Another thing is I was getting completely pwned on that table. I was playing a 33/25/4 game and had to give up on pretty much all my cbets on the flop OR I took down flops with my cbets without a showdown. On one other occasion, I 3bet oop vs btn opener and got called, flop came dry, my cbet got called, and I check/folded turn. All of those hands together gave me a really weak-lagtard image imo.

Also, I HAVE TPTK GOD DAMN IT ZOMFGLOLWTFFFF!
06-09-2008 , 02:10 PM
blump.
06-09-2008 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPHL
Having the Ace of hearts changes things a little bit but I would probably just lay this down.
Assuming a tag villain, having the Ah actually hurts you against his range of sets/draws/air.
06-09-2008 , 02:50 PM
I think call and re-evaluate turn, IMO villain will chk behind draws and most likely give up on bluffs.
06-09-2008 , 03:13 PM
i would call and chck most all turns. sometimes 3-bet if i think my opponent is capable of spaz shoving draws or KT or something like that.
06-09-2008 , 05:08 PM
Here's turn action:

I called.

Turn comes 8. Pot $85. We both have about $160 behind.

I checked. He bet $66.

Now it's time to fold?

What if the turn comes a T?
06-09-2008 , 05:32 PM
Meh, fold now. I don't like it, but you might as well save your $. Not my favorite spot.
06-09-2008 , 05:41 PM
This is a spot where I like check/calling the flop against an aggressive player.

By cbetting, the villian is going to be able to put you in a difficult spot, just as he did here. As you said - "I feel like the villain either has a set, draw or is bluffing here." - i.e., you have no idea where you're at. You have probably flopped the best hand, but it's not like you want to play a big pot here oop. Sure, there's a heart draw, but the villian usually won't have hearts and you'll have much easier decisions on later streets with more information and a smaller pot.
06-09-2008 , 06:10 PM
C/c flop here is bad imo.
Against unknown i fold flop cuz i dont know how he plays draws/sets here.
And he is gonna bet turn too much i think
06-09-2008 , 06:16 PM
Plyr is unknown, you're probably unknown to him. He has to assume your range is pretty narrow. I dont like c/c this flop, I think you should def fold though. I think sets are the biggest part of his range here. Yes I fold overpairs here also.
06-09-2008 , 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrAdj
C/c flop here is bad imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godlike
I dont like c/c this flop
Because?
06-09-2008 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschell
This is a spot where I like check/calling the flop against an aggressive player.

By cbetting, the villian is going to be able to put you in a difficult spot, just as he did here. As you said - "I feel like the villain either has a set, draw or is bluffing here." - i.e., you have no idea where you're at. You have probably flopped the best hand, but it's not like you want to play a big pot here oop. Sure, there's a heart draw, but the villian usually won't have hearts and you'll have much easier decisions on later streets with more information and a smaller pot.
But you also miss a ****ton of value, and it seems like your hand will become pretty face-up pretty fast.
06-09-2008 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaser8
Here's turn action:

I called.

Turn comes 8. Pot $85. We both have about $160 behind.

I checked. He bet $66.

Now it's time to fold?

What if the turn comes a T?
Why would you c/f on this turn card? I thought u wanted to get it in on a safe turn card against draws to improve your equity?
06-09-2008 , 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschell
Because?
Villain is unknown, so I would take my stnd line and bet the flop all day. You have no reason to think otherwise. You check this flop most of the time?
06-09-2008 , 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGrunt
Why would you c/f on this turn card? I thought u wanted to get it in on a safe turn card against draws to improve your equity?
A lot of draws tend to check a blank turn, don't you think?
06-09-2008 , 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaser8
Here's turn action:

I called.

Turn comes 8. Pot $85. We both have about $160 behind.

I checked. He bet $66.

Now it's time to fold?

What if the turn comes a T?
I dont think he'd run a 2nd barrel bluff on you or even bet a heart draw. He cant expect you to fold this turn.
06-09-2008 , 07:04 PM
What about c/r this flop?
06-09-2008 , 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaser8
A lot of draws tend to check a blank turn, don't you think?
No. Because Hero always 3bet Flops with hands he's comfortable getting it in.
06-09-2008 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by i4betbluff
No. Because Hero always 3bet Flops with hands he's comfortable getting it in.
So you 2barrel hearts here? If you are villain what range do you assign op and how much of that do you think he folds to a turn bet.
06-09-2008 , 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godlike
So you 2barrel hearts here? If you are villain what range do you assign op and how much of that do you think he folds to a turn bet.
Most of his draws are good ones such as 56hh, 67hh, KQhh, JKhh.. J9hh, JQhh and such also improved on the turn and checking hands like that back is pretty bad.

I just don't think flatting the flop OOP and then check folding this turn is too great... I would much rather just fold the flop.
06-09-2008 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godlike
So you 2barrel hearts here? If you are villain what range do you assign op and how much of that do you think he folds to a turn bet.
Yes I do. And when I'm villian I would think he has Tx (p.ex.: AT,KT,QT,...), probably a straight draw or the GS with the Ah. Probably even 77-99 peeling one time hoping to show it down.

My point is, that all the good hands (JJ-AA, sets and Two Pair) 3bet this flop and get it in while he's calling range is so weak, making it profitable to double barrel when you're villian.

...

imo
06-09-2008 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by i4betbluff
Yes I do. And when I'm villian I would think he has Tx (p.ex.: AT,KT,QT,...), probably a straight draw or the GS with the Ah. Probably even 77-99 peeling one time hoping to show it down.

My point is, that all the good hands (JJ-AA, sets and Two Pair) 3bet this flop and get it in while he's calling range is so weak, making it profitable to double barrel when you're villian.

...

imo
I can somewhat agree with this but just because op is uncomfortable with his hand doesnt mean hes folding which is why I asked how much of his range you expect him to fold. This is just another reason b/c is bad, just fold the flop.
06-09-2008 , 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godlike
I can somewhat agree with this but just because op is uncomfortable with his hand doesnt mean hes folding which is why I asked how much of his range you expect him to fold. This is just another reason b/c is bad, just fold the flop.
I was leaning towards 3-bet/Call flop though.

      
m